Snakes that can live off roaches and don't need heat lamps?

[Ixithel]

I've heard there are a few snakes in the hobby that are small enough to be able to live off roaches and can live comfortably at room temperature. I thought I'd ask, I want a snake but at the same time I wouldn't be able to have it out in the open or offer it a heat lamp. A heat pad is do-able..

Just wondering what types of snakes can live in these conditions if there really ARE any. I want a ball python but I wouldn't be able to keep it like that D;

 

[BQC123]

There are insect eating snakes. Green snakes come to mind. The problem is you need to offer a thermal gradient so they can properly regulate their body temp. Heat tape may work just fine on one end of the enclosure. Some believe that uv lighting is beneficial for them though. Any snakes, even natives, that I have kept were always set up with supplemental heating, and most like a basking area.

 

[bravesvikings20]

Ribbon snakes also might be a good choice. Eating insects, and can also be fed with guppies in the water bowl.

 

[pitbulllady]

The only snakes I've ever actually known to eat roaches are the Rough Green Snakes. They will happily devour both roaches and crickets, and can do quite well at normal household room temperatures. I've kept many, many species of snakes, both native and exotic, for 40+ years now, and the only ones I use supplemental heat sources on are the ones native to the tropics or hot desert regions. I have never used UVB lighting on any snake, and I've had several that lived longer than 20 years. Green Snakes are highly arboreal, and prefer a shady environment so they can hide, and a heat lamp would probably pose a risk of dehydration to such small, slender snakes. Unless you keep it really cool year-round inside, the snake should do just fine, and it's a good idea to allow it to naturally brumate during winter, anyway.

All the Ribbon Snakes I've kept were exclusively fish eaters, and showed no interest in earthworms or any other food items. Most Garters will eat earthworms, but I've never seen one eat an insect.

pitbulllady

 

[jebbewocky]

The only snakes I've ever actually known to eat roaches are the Rough Green Snakes. They will happily devour both roaches and crickets, and can do quite well at normal household room temperatures. I've kept many, many species of snakes, both native and exotic, for 40+ years now, and the only ones I use supplemental heat sources on are the ones native to the tropics or hot desert regions. I have never used UVB lighting on any snake, and I've had several that lived longer than 20 years. Green Snakes are highly arboreal, and prefer a shady environment so they can hide, and a heat lamp would probably pose a risk of dehydration to such small, slender snakes. Unless you keep it really cool year-round inside, the snake should do just fine, and it's a good idea to allow it to naturally brumate during winter, anyway.

All the Ribbon Snakes I've kept were exclusively fish eaters, and showed no interest in earthworms or any other food items. Most Garters will eat earthworms, but I've never seen one eat an insect.

pitbulllady

I might have to try keeping those sometime!

 

[pavel]

I'd have to agree with Pitbull Lady. VERY few snake species will eat any kind of insect at all -- no matter how hungry they are.

 

[SandDeku]

all snakes need a form of heat source. Preferably a heat mat(undertank), or a heat lamp.

 

[pitbulllady]

all snakes need a form of heat source. Preferably a heat mat(undertank), or a heat lamp.

I beg to differ, with over 40 years of successful snake keeping and breeding experience. I do not, and have never, used supplementary heat with any of my native species. With a small, delicate species like a Rough Green, which won't go near the bottom of an enclosure except briefly, to drink or lay eggs, it's rather pointless to have an undertank heater in the first place. A proper set-up for these is a vertical, upright arboreal enclosure. A heat lamp, on the other hand, can easily and quickly dehydrate and kill such a small snake, which is adapted to cool, shady tree canopies. Unless a home is really cold in winter, a heat source on a native, non-tropical, non-desert snake is not needed, not when most species normally(as in the wild)"operate" best when temps are around 70-80 degrees F., which is typical household room temp. In winter(again, unless it gets cold enough indoors to actually risk freezing the snake)native snakes should be allowed to brumate, which means they need to be cooled down. I've found that native species which are kept warm and kept feeding throughout the winter do not tend to live as long as those which are allowed to have a couple of months of brumation per year, and you can basically forget breeding them if they don't get to cool down along with experiencing increased hours of darkness. This is especially important with Natricines like Water and Garter Snakes, and since mine bred like rats this year, without any supplemental heat at all, producing around 150 babies all total, I'm obviously doing SOMETHING right. My smallest litters were from the snakes I kept outside this summer in a large enclosure under a shed; they totally stopped eating for the hottest two months, which probably led to smaller litter sizes, while the ones inside, in the AC, had litters of up to 58 babies and never missed a meal, except during the worst of the heat spell when it got up to 85 indoors even with AC. I had clutches from the Pines, Black x Greenish Rats, and Corns as well...almost TOO many babies, honestly.

pitbulllady

 

[pavel]

While my herp experience is not nearly as extensive as PitbullLady's, my own experiences are in line with hers on this as well.

 

[Shrike]

I beg to differ, with over 40 years of successful snake keeping and breeding experience. I do not, and have never, used supplementary heat with any of my native species. With a small, delicate species like a Rough Green, which won't go near the bottom of an enclosure except briefly, to drink or lay eggs, it's rather pointless to have an undertank heater in the first place. A proper set-up for these is a vertical, upright arboreal enclosure. A heat lamp, on the other hand, can easily and quickly dehydrate and kill such a small snake, which is adapted to cool, shady tree canopies. Unless a home is really cold in winter, a heat source on a native, non-tropical, non-desert snake is not needed, not when most species normally(as in the wild)"operate" best when temps are around 70-80 degrees F., which is typical household room temp. In winter(again, unless it gets cold enough indoors to actually risk freezing the snake)native snakes should be allowed to brumate, which means they need to be cooled down. I've found that native species which are kept warm and kept feeding throughout the winter do not tend to live as long as those which are allowed to have a couple of months of brumation per year, and you can basically forget breeding them if they don't get to cool down along with experiencing increased hours of darkness. This is especially important with Natricines like Water and Garter Snakes, and since mine bred like rats this year, without any supplemental heat at all, producing around 150 babies all total, I'm obviously doing SOMETHING right. My smallest litters were from the snakes I kept outside this summer in a large enclosure under a shed; they totally stopped eating for the hottest two months, which probably led to smaller litter sizes, while the ones inside, in the AC, had litters of up to 58 babies and never missed a meal, except during the worst of the heat spell when it got up to 85 indoors even with AC. I had clutches from the Pines, Black x Greenish Rats, and Corns as well...almost TOO many babies, honestly.


pitbulllady

+1 for pitbulllady

 

[jebbewocky]

I keep a heating pad for my corn, because I had a spare one and figured why not? Now I'm reconsidering...

 

[Shrike]

Jebbewocky, I think you could still go with the heat pad if needed. Regardless of whether it's a necessity, your corn might derive some benefits from having one. Pitbulllady was simply saying it isn't an absolute necessity for all snakes, especially for native species. I recently started using a heat pad for my Andean milk snake (not native obviously), as well as a thermostat to preventing the pad from providing too much warmth. However, I kept the same snake for many years without any external heat source. You could always discontinue your use of the pad to allow your snake to brumate.

 

[LeilaNami]

I also don't use heat lamps for my native snakes. All of them are kept at the ambient room temperature (75-80F). Green snakes are the only snakes I've ever kept that have seen take roaches. All garters and ribbon snakes I have kept refuse to eat insects and prefer fish and frogs.

 

[Galapoheros]

I can only think of Green snakes also. Juv Coachwhips eat insects, I saw it myself in my backyard. I was lucky enough to see a very young one catch and eat a cricket. But it's diet changes as it gets bigger. I'd go with a green snake.

 

[loxoscelesfear]

high expectations for a snake. just get a rat snake and feed it pre-killed rodents and keep the room @ a decent temp. you do not need a heat pad for a ball python if you keep the room temp 70 +

 

[pitbulllady]

I'm curious, and since no one asked the OP, I have to ask WHY roaches in the first place? Is it because you've got a ready supply of B. dubias, or what? I would NEVER feed a wild roach to a reptile or one of my tarantulas, because most have been in contact with some sort of pesticide, and while roaches are notorious for building up resistance to poisons, the predators that eat them usually aren't so lucky. I'll throw a wild roach to a native spider, since they're gonna eat them, anyway, but not to an animal I'm caring for. Or, is it because you're squeamish about feeding rodents to a snake? There are many snakes that will eat fish, including fish that is sold for human consumption at the supermarket or fish market. You just cut it up in small enough pieces and hand it to them with tongs. I have Water Snakes that have never seen a whole fish in their entire lives. If you're not keen on feeding LIVE rodents, keep in mind that most snake keepers don't feed live prey, but frozen-thawed rodents, which you can buy easily online or perhaps even locally. No mess, no risk of you or the snake being bitten, as easy to keep as frozen burgers. If it's the snake size that bothers you, Ribbon Snakes, which are fish eaters, stay about the same size as Rough Greens and are usually much less flighty about being handled, too. The really small snakes aren't good candidates for handling, due to their delicate build and usually nervous, shy nature. Ironically, I've found that when I do snake lectures, people are less comfortable around those always-squirmy little snakes like the Greens than they are around a fat old Banded Water Snake or a Boa.

pitbulllady

 

[pavel]

You just cut it up in small enough pieces and hand it to them with tongs. I have Water Snakes that have never seen a whole fish in their entire lives.
pitbulllady

Q with regard to this for you, PitbullLady.

I had read in numerous places (but unfortunately can't remember the sources I regret to say) that in feeding pieces of store bought fish to fish eating snakes like garters, one runs into the problem of not providing the snake with all the nutrients (vitamins & minerals, etc) it would normally get from eating the entire fish, bones and all. Have you seen health problems related to this issue occur? What steps do you take, if any, to remedy the nutritional deficit?

 

[SandDeku]

I beg to differ, with over 40 years of successful snake keeping and breeding experience. I do not, and have never, used supplementary heat with any of my native species. With a small, delicate species like a Rough Green, which won't go near the bottom of an enclosure except briefly, to drink or lay eggs, it's rather pointless to have an undertank heater in the first place. A proper set-up for these is a vertical, upright arboreal enclosure. A heat lamp, on the other hand, can easily and quickly dehydrate and kill such a small snake, which is adapted to cool, shady tree canopies. Unless a home is really cold in winter, a heat source on a native, non-tropical, non-desert snake is not needed, not when most species normally(as in the wild)"operate" best when temps are around 70-80 degrees F., which is typical household room temp. In winter(again, unless it gets cold enough indoors to actually risk freezing the snake)native snakes should be allowed to brumate, which means they need to be cooled down. I've found that native species which are kept warm and kept feeding throughout the winter do not tend to live as long as those which are allowed to have a couple of months of brumation per year, and you can basically forget breeding them if they don't get to cool down along with experiencing increased hours of darkness. This is especially important with Natricines like Water and Garter Snakes, and since mine bred like rats this year, without any supplemental heat at all, producing around 150 babies all total, I'm obviously doing SOMETHING right. My smallest litters were from the snakes I kept outside this summer in a large enclosure under a shed; they totally stopped eating for the hottest two months, which probably led to smaller litter sizes, while the ones inside, in the AC, had litters of up to 58 babies and never missed a meal, except during the worst of the heat spell when it got up to 85 indoors even with AC. I had clutches from the Pines, Black x Greenish Rats, and Corns as well...almost TOO many babies, honestly.

pitbulllady

My house stays at 50-60degrees all year long for the most part. So do most of my friends and most of the people I meet. But I guess you're right. If it stays at 70degrees or so. Then yeah it would be pointless. I guess I'm talking from personal experience. Only way to keep em warm in my house are heat mats or lamps(dependent of the animal)

 

[pitbulllady]

Q with regard to this for you, PitbullLady.

I had read in numerous places (but unfortunately can't remember the sources I regret to say) that in feeding pieces of store bought fish to fish eating snakes like garters, one runs into the problem of not providing the snake with all the nutrients (vitamins & minerals, etc) it would normally get from eating the entire fish, bones and all. Have you seen health problems related to this issue occur? What steps do you take, if any, to remedy the nutritional deficit?

I do use calcium supplements in the form of Reptivite powder, once per month...just pour out a bit on a paper plate and roll the fish in it like it's flower and I'm going to fry the fist, but I feed it to the snakes instead. I also feed fish-scented f/t mice, especially when the snakes first come out of brumation. Most Water Snakes take scented mice or rat pups readily and some will eat them unscented. My larger specimens will eat whole fish, which I can also purchase from any one of several fish markets around here. Croaker fish are popular for fish fries, a standard of Southern social culture, and they can almost always be purchased whole, not gutted, from seafood markets. They aren't big fish, so a large Water Snake can eat a smaller Croaker whole. Many supermarkets carry whole Croaker or Spots around here, too.

pitbulllady

 

[pavel]

Thanks!