Snake questions

[Geography Guy]

Why is my Corn snake becoming sssssooooo aggressive? He was so friendly before and now he will try to bite me everytime I open his cage. Also about my Milk snake. Why is he always twiching? Similar to I think turets (however you spell it) in a person

 

[Mister Internet]

How is he being kept? Describe your setup, cage furnishings, temperature gradients, and substrate in detail, and we can start from there...

 

[Stratusfaction]

How old is your corn now? How often do you feed it? Is there a possibility it was just hungry and could've thought your hand was a mouse? Also, do you feed your corn in the same tank in lives in?

David

 

[Geography Guy]

How is he being kept? Describe your setup, cage furnishings, temperature gradients, and substrate in detail, and we can start from there...

I keep him in a large aquarium not sure exactly how large. I have big cardboard rolls that my snakes seem to like. Temperature is around 30C maybe hotter. I use a type of soft wood chips that a lot of people keep rodents in because they like to burrow in it. I also have a water dish and a cardboard house. I feed him about 4-5 small mice a week. He is I think about 2-3 feet long.

 

[Geography Guy]

How old is your corn now? How often do you feed it? Is there a possibility it was just hungry and could've thought your hand was a mouse? Also, do you feed your corn in the same tank in lives in?

David

Don't know how old. Over at least 3-4 years. Yes I feed him in the same cage which I was told not to but I didn't find that out until a month ago and I have had him for 3-4 years.

 

[Mister Internet]

I keep him in a large aquarium not sure exactly how large. I have big cardboard rolls that my snakes seem to like. Temperature is around 30C maybe hotter. I use a type of soft wood chips that a lot of people keep rodents in because they like to burrow in it. I also have a water dish and a cardboard house. I feed him about 4-5 small mice a week. He is I think about 2-3 feet long.

OK, a couple things..... is the whole cage 30C, or is that the "hot side" and there is a "cool side"? Have you been dropping its food directly on the substrate, so there might be a chance of impaction? How long since the last defecation? Are you feeding all 4-5 small mice in one feeding, or feeding once a day or so? Is there a hide in both the hot and cool areas?

As a preliminary suggestion... an adult (and I'm basing this on you saying you've had it 3-4 years) Corn Snake should be eating, at a minimum, adult mice... mine eats adolescent rats. Prey size should be measured by the largest part of your snake. ONE prey item approximately as big as the girthiest part of your snake every 7-14 days is PLENTY for an adult snake.

 

[Mister Internet]

Don't know how old. Over at least 3-4 years. Yes I feed him in the same cage which I was told not to but I didn't find that out until a month ago and I have had him for 3-4 years.

BTW, don't trust the "cage-aggressive" opinions as gospel... I feed all my snakes in their enclosures and have had NO bites from it. They know the difference between a hook and a dead rat. You should ALWAYS use a hook to remove a snake from its enclosure though... they aren't the smartest critters in the world.

 

[Kid Dragon]

IME corn snakes will calm down when handled often. With an aggressive one, you might have to get bit a few times, but they have tiny teeth. The more you handle without fear, the faster they will become docile.

I bought a snowy corn at 4 feet that thought she was tough. It took me three days to turn her into a pussycat. I just kept holding her, never hurt her, she stopped being afraid, and we became friends.

 

[ParabuthusKing]

Don't give the guy bad ideas!!

BTW, don't trust the "cage-aggressive" opinions as gospel... I feed all my snakes in their enclosures and have had NO bites from it. They know the difference between a hook and a dead rat. You should ALWAYS use a hook to remove a snake from its enclosure though... they aren't the smartest critters in the world.

Yea.. well you may have your opinion, but I DO NOT think you should be telling others "not to worry" about such issues.. It has been shown in MULTIPLE cases that feeding animals in the same cage they live in builds an association with you opening the cage and feeding time.. I am not to say I am an expert in this field, but I WAS BIT by a 12 FOOT BURMESE PYTHON in this exact situation and IT HURT LIKE HELL.. do what you want, but I DO NOT appreciate you advocating unsafe behavior on these forums especially to someone who obviously knows minimal amount about snake behavior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the comment about their intelligence.. yes they have small brains, but I like your arrogance... how long have your relatives existed on this planet? and snakes? ok my point is made..

 

[Beardo]

Yea.. well you may have your opinion, but I DO NOT think you should be telling others "not to worry" about such issues.. It has been shown in MULTIPLE cases that feeding animals in the same cage they live in builds an association with you opening the cage and feeding time.. I am not to say I am an expert in this field, but I WAS BIT by a 12 FOOT BURMESE PYTHON in this exact situation and IT HURT LIKE HELL.. do what you want, but I DO NOT appreciate you advocating unsafe behavior on these forums especially to someone who obviously knows minimal amount about snake behavior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the comment about their intelligence.. yes they have small brains, but I like your arrogance... how long have your relatives existed on this planet? and snakes? ok my point is made..

A wise man once said...."It is better to keep one's mouth closed and allow others to believe they are foolish then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt".....or something to that effect and I think the quote fits your post *perfectly*.

You criticize MrInternet for "advocating unsafe behavior...to someone who obviously knows minimal amount about snake behavior" which I find incredibly ironic since you have demonstrated you are among those with miminal knowledge of snake behavior as well....I'm also sitting her scratching my head trying to figure out what part of removing a Corn Snake from its enclosure with a hook is "unsafe"? :?

The reason you got bit is probably because the Burmese Python (which are known for their aggressive feeding responses) smelled a rodent/prey item in the room (YES, snakes CAN smell objects that are not DIRECTLY in front of them!) and tagged the first warm thing it saw: you. Anyone who has any amount of experience with Burmese Pythons knows better than to stick their hand in front of one, let alone a 12 footer, while there is a rodent scent in the vicinity. I guess you know that now, but you learned it the hard way.

My point of this post.....people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[wacospiderman]

hey whats up snakes often associate there cage being open to it being meal time' luckly its a corn and not a retic lol

 

[ParabuthusKing]

Im done trying to help!!

I did not say that I was better than MisterInternet.. my point is I would like to try to PREVENT others from having the same mistake I did.. my burmese was ADOPTED, and I was trying to help get him out of cruel old owners care.. yes I was naive at the time and was bitten.. since then I have a much greater respect for ALL living things.. my point being.. I do not think that advocating feeding in cages is appropriate, and I think MANY authorities on this subject would agree.. I do not feel the need to further back up my beliefs, but will have no sympathy for anyone who has been warned of such dangers and is bitten themselves..all I have to say is Good luck being a Zookeeper

 

[Mister Internet]

Yea.. well you may have your opinion, but I DO NOT think you should be telling others "not to worry" about such issues.. It has been shown in MULTIPLE cases that feeding animals in the same cage they live in builds an association with you opening the cage and feeding time.. I am not to say I am an expert in this field, but I WAS BIT by a 12 FOOT BURMESE PYTHON in this exact situation and IT HURT LIKE HELL.. do what you want, but I DO NOT appreciate you advocating unsafe behavior on these forums especially to someone who obviously knows minimal amount about snake behavior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the comment about their intelligence.. yes they have small brains, but I like your arrogance... how long have your relatives existed on this planet? and snakes? ok my point is made..

I did not say that I was better than MisterInternet.. my point is I would like to try to PREVENT others from having the same mistake I did.. my burmese was ADOPTED, and I was trying to help get him out of cruel old owners care.. yes I was naive at the time and was bitten.. since then I have a much greater respect for ALL living things.. my point being.. I do not think that advocating feeding in cages is appropriate, and I think MANY authorities on this subject would agree.. I do not feel the need to further back up my beliefs, but will have no sympathy for anyone who has been warned of such dangers and is bitten themselves..all I have to say is Good luck being a Zookeeper

OK, PK... if you're done foaming at the mouth, do you think we could discuss my advice like educated human beings? Imagine my surprise when I read in your profile that you recently graduated with a fairly advanced scientific degree... you will then, of course, be familiar with the terms "hyperbole" and "opinion". What I presented was an OPINION... what you rebutted with (although it only very loosely resembled coherent) was OPINION. If you are going to demonize my OPINION, it helps to bring FACTS to the table. Arguing against OPINION with HYPERBOLE does nothing for one's case, and serves only to make the speaker sound like a red-faced three year-old who has to yell to be heard above his brothers and sisters.

I appreciate the fact you were bitten by a 12' Burmese... you did not, however, present ANY evidence that the bite was due to in-cage feeding ("He always fed it in its cage" is not valid evidence in this case, as it assumes a non-provable cause/effect relationship. You probably ran into cause/effect relationships in science class, no?). Therefore, it is nothing but red-faced ranting to try to use your bite experience as ammunition against my advice to not take "cage-aggressiveness" as gospel. Did you catch that? My original post advice was to 'not take is as gospel', not that it "IS DEAD WRONG!". Of course there is the chance that snakes could learn to associate cage opening with being fed... of course, there's also the chance the could associate the lights flipping on in your animal room with being fed... and also the chance that they will learn to associate being transferred to their feeding container with being fed... if you're more comfortable with actually HANDLING the snake to transfer it to the container where it KNOWS it will be fed, be my guest. There are PLENTY of big-name breeders and keepers in the snake world that feed in the enclosure... you think Bob Clark takes each snake out and puts it in a separate cage for feeding?

Snakes' feeding responses are PRIMARILY triggered by smell... I trust that you are aware of this. Being PRIMARILY triggered by smell, I would much rather just get the snake accumstomed to being lifted out of its enclosure on a hook every time... that way, the only trigger is SMELL. There's no way I'm handling my 7' BCI after she's fed... not a chance. I feed her in the cage, and it works just fine... she knows the hook, and she knows what rats smell like... it's really not that difficult.

So, if you have something constructive to add to this, I'm interested to hear it... but if you're just going to wave your arms around and yell again, I'll pass.

Sorry, GG... still interested in helping you out... let me know the answers to the q's as soon as you can...

 

[Snipes]

Yea.. well you may have your opinion, but I DO NOT think you should be telling others "not to worry" about such issues.. It has been shown in MULTIPLE cases that feeding animals in the same cage they live in builds an association with you opening the cage and feeding time.. I am not to say I am an expert in this field, but I WAS BIT by a 12 FOOT BURMESE PYTHON in this exact situation and IT HURT LIKE HELL.. do what you want, but I DO NOT appreciate you advocating unsafe behavior on these forums especially to someone who obviously knows minimal amount about snake behavior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the comment about their intelligence.. yes they have small brains, but I like your arrogance... how long have your relatives existed on this planet? and snakes? ok my point is made..

What about if you feed them in their cage, but hold them a lot? Will they learn to access the situation when their cage is opened since they dont know what exactly to expect?

 

[ParabuthusKing]

Snake feeding

OK.. to MrInternet.. sorry about the lashing out, but I really feel it is important to emphasize safe handling of animals especially because many of the animals discussed on these forums are venomous. I am only going by my experience, which I will be humble and admit may not be as much as some when dealing with potentially harmful snakes. While I do feel that cage feeding is ok, especially with small or nonvenomous snakes, I do not agree that it is a good idea with larger constrictors, or any larger snake you choose to handle regularly. If you want to keep your snake in a cage for its entire life as a display animal and never take it out of the cage for exercise or affection, I think that your method would be fine, and probably preferable, as you never will be putting hands in cage to try and hold snake, so there is never the worry about getting bit. All I know is I do not wish anyone to have the experience I did.. it was the most painful thing I have ever had happen, I could have died, and I am relatively insensitive to pain, this was just VERY painful!! And while I really have not done any scientific studies of snake behavior and association of feeding with biting their owners, I can say for certain that when my snakes have been fed in their cages they initially act more aggressive towards me in subsequent cage openings which I THINK has to do with the association of being fed. I will stop my ranting, but hope that our argument will at least get people to think about safety when dealing with such situations as I honestly did NOT think about this type of problem until I was bitten, at which point I learned the hard way. As to the original post .. I think that you are keeping your corn snake at too warm of temperatures. I would agree with previous post and provide a larger gradient so he can cool down if he so chooses. Also, I would provide a more naturalistic hiding area for him, as he may feel a little insecure with current hide- increasing his aggressiveness as he may feel he does not have the ability to escape when threatened. And my hands are flailing as to what could be wrong with the milksnake?? My only thought would be some type of internal parasite that is bothering him.. Have you checked his feces for signs of parasites? Somebody esle may be able to help more, but good luck, and if you could post more specific info about milksnakes twitching.. like does it happen all the time, after feeding, etc.. this may help diagnose problem

 

[Geography Guy]

OK, a couple things..... is the whole cage 30C, or is that the "hot side" and there is a "cool side"? Have you been dropping its food directly on the substrate, so there might be a chance of impaction? How long since the last defecation? Are you feeding all 4-5 small mice in one feeding, or feeding once a day or so? Is there a hide in both the hot and cool areas?

As a preliminary suggestion... an adult (and I'm basing this on you saying you've had it 3-4 years) Corn Snake should be eating, at a minimum, adult mice... mine eats adolescent rats. Prey size should be measured by the largest part of your snake. ONE prey item approximately as big as the girthiest part of your snake every 7-14 days is PLENTY for an adult snake.

well I don't know what the temp of the cage is I just know what the room temperature is and that is between 30C-40C. I have a heat lamp over one side of the cage. Yes I have hides on each side. I feed him all at once. I don't keep track of defecation. I would feed him larger mice I am just afraid that one will bite him like one did with my Milk Snake.

 

[Geography Guy]

BTW, don't trust the "cage-aggressive" opinions as gospel... I feed all my snakes in their enclosures and have had NO bites from it. They know the difference between a hook and a dead rat. You should ALWAYS use a hook to remove a snake from its enclosure though... they aren't the smartest critters in the world.

I never really needed to use a hook before, I think I will try it though. Usually if I can quickly grab him before he gets all aggressive on me he would know its me and stay calm but now if he knows I am in that room that gets him all aggressive. He seems to be getting more and more aggressive as the years go by. Also (this is not directed at you Mister Internet) I thought if I moved him into another cage and then feed him there he will be aggressive towards me taking him out of the other cage so I find either way I will be dealing with an aggressive snake. One more thing not sure if it makes a diference or not but Mister Internet you said up there "They know the difference between a hook and a dead rat". I feed mine live mice if it makes a difference.

 

[Thoth]

For the corn snake it might be something as simple as an upcoming shed, my corns tend to become very skittish and agitated (or aggressive depending on the snake) right before a shed. The eye scales tend to cloud over prior a shed and if you try to handle a snake when he is effectively blind he will become quite defensive until the shed.

 

[Geography Guy]

For the corn snake it might be something as simple as an upcoming shed, my corns tend to become very skittish and agitated (or aggressive depending on the snake) right before a shed. The eye scales tend to cloud over prior a shed and if you try to handle a snake when he is effectively blind he will become quite defensive until the shed.

Mine just came out of a shed. But for my aggressive corn he is usually aggressive towards me. I could understand why a blind snake would be jumpy or/and defensive.

 

[ErikH]

You really should get a couple of thermometers to measure temps on the warm and cool side of the enclosure. Your snakes aggressiveness could be due to husbandry issues.