Snake bite and ultimate stupidity

[The Snark]

(WARNING! The following face palm may cause pain and even damage)
Spork, my young niece, stepped on the tail of a snake. The other end of the critter expressed it's displeasure in a typical manner. She got a single scratch an inch long that drew blood. My wife reported this to me along with the kids mom giving the bite the 'mai pen rai'. That's Thai for nothing, never mind.
I wasn't a happy camper. We called sis in law and I couldn't get her so we called a different sis in law who had also been present. I demanded a description of the snake. "It was black and white."
It took a solid 2 minutes to get the question understood: Did it have bands of black and white completely around the body?
The reply: No. A dusty black back and a white tummy.
Me: "You just described a cobra."
Her: "No. It didn't look like a cobra."
Me: "Name other snakes we have around here that are that color."
Her: "I don't know snakes."
Me: "Why don't you think it was a cobra?"
Her: "It didn't look like one."
Me, finally realizing she has only seen cobras from LaLa land which is 3 trillion kilometer from earth: "What does a cobra look like?"
Her: "It's got that hood thing."


The low down.
23:00 hrs. My wife is pretty darned sharp. As we were dashing out the door she had me put on my professional looking jacket. We nearly forcibly kidnapped the kid and zipped her to a hospital. With me looking like a doctor the ER staff got it in gear pronto. The P.O.D. cooperated. Got an I.V. going but the doc didn't want to administer antivenin without a positive snake ID.
02:00 Kid develops neurological symptoms. Shivering, dizziness, vomiting etc. We ordered her catheterized.
06:00 We had ran 5 liters Ringers & N.S. through her. Symptoms subsided significantly. 2 docs declare her out of the woods. She's home and fine now, although she's still peeing like a racehorse.

 

[TB3Redneck]

Did you ever find out what species of Cobra it was? Sounds like a Monacle'd to me, but the symptoms seem reasonable for only one fang scratch as you described.

 

[cmack91]

Beginning rant.

How the hell does someone who lives in a part of the world where venomous snakes are present not educate themselves on at least how to identify the potentially deadly ones, you know, like COBRAS! I guess the saying that common sense isn't very common has more truth to it than I thought.

End rant.

I'm sorry to hear that your niece had to go through that, but props to you for snatching her up and getting her to the hospital. I'm glad to hear she's okay. Hopefully this will give your sister in laws a nice wake up call.

 

[The Snark]

No idea which cobra model. It scampered. Described as 'about a meter and a little long. Not white... sort of cream tummy. Some little white dots on it's back.' That pretty much describes all our local ones. Since it never put up it's hood and posed with it's back to witnesses we will probably never know but the kid said her ankle was wet. That sounds like Siamensis.

I feel very fortunate. My wife is a stoic who accompanied me on medical work in the boondocks for years and I've long got past 'red light fever'. So we weren't tense and able to focus a lot of attention on keeping the kid relaxed and amused. I even got the nurses to let me give the kid some prep packs to open like Christmas presents then explained the tools and things to her as she dug them out. We got a lot of giggles out of her.

Give sis in laws a wake up call. Right. Let me know when Elvis gets here. My parting shot to sis felt good though: "If I crack your head open I'll have enough fluff to stuff 40 pillows."

PS. I'm just glad as all get out it wasn't a krait.

 

[cmack91]

Give sis in laws a wake up call. Right. Let me know when Elvis gets here. My parting shot to sis felt good though: "If I crack your head open I'll have enough fluff to stuff 40 pillows."

Thats a good one.

 

[lizardminion]

Give sis in laws a wake up call. Right. Let me know when Elvis gets here. My parting shot to sis felt good though: "If I crack your head open I'll have enough fluff to stuff 40 pillows."

Lol! There needs to be a book of quotes by The Snark. Nice one.

 

[pitbulllady]

Man, what a close call! I totally agree with what cmack91 said, about how ludicrous it is to live in an area where there are venomous species known to exist, and NOT educate yourself about how to properly ID them and recognize them! I see this all the time on other site, but usually it's the opposite reaction from Snark's sister's "mai pen rai"(I learned a THAI phrase that doesn't have anything to do with FOOD! Yah for me!) attitude. Usually, in the US, people just ASSume every snake they see is "poisonous" and kill it, even if they live in areas well outside the range of the suspected venomous species...like the person in Ontario who killed a Northern Water Snake and posted its mutilated corpse on a website to boast about how he'd single-handedly saved the world from this deadly "Water Moccasin". The inevitable argument from such people is "I'm not a snake nerd like you so I don't care about learning to identify the snakes that live here. I just kill all of 'em." It is also my findings that most people think that Cobras go around with their hoods outstretched 24/7, and do not realize that for most of the time, Cobras do not have their hoods displayed and look astonishingly like "normal", run-of-the-mill snakes. I saw THAT attitude in effect at the reptile show this past weekend, where I overheard someone telling his kids and wife/girlfriend that my buddy's leucistic baby Monocle Cobras were "cute little Rat Snakes or something", and when I pointed out the labels on the containers, he replied, "hmph. Must have put these in the wrong boxes. No way these are Cobras. Cobras are black and have that thing around their necks." Young King Cobras look even less Cobra-like, with their slender build and a pattern that does closely resemble than of a juvenile Ptyas Rat Snake, and even adult Kings have fairly poorly developed hoods. I have seen more than one Cobra strike without "hooding up" at all, or which strike first and THEN display the hood.
Good to know that your niece is OK, though, Snark, and that you got there in time. Sounds like she got a minimal dose of venom, which is good, too.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

What I fail to understand is the laid back laconic attitude. That comes in part from being born and raised hilltribe in the boondocks I suppose, but still, what happened to erring on the side of caution? What about some maternal instincts of concern? How about, can you pick out which one is the cobra?

Here is a nice comparison. A Kaouthai and an Asian ratter, both mature. The ratter's color (in bright sunlight anyway) makes it obvious. Note the false spinal ridge on the cobra. That's just it tensing as it negotiates a branch. (Note the ratter has tensed as well and the greater muscular development of the constrictor can be clearly seen). Both are quite at home in trees and bushes which they often climb to get some sun on those chilly mornings. This pic gives away which is which in the above picture.

From what I've seen, especially with the kings, raising the hood in threat/warning posture is entirely optional. I watched a young king strike, munching tadpoles and frogs, way over 100 times without the slightest expansion of it's hood. They have no reason to raise their hoods while hunting normally, as down in the termite tunnels hunting other snakes.

PBL: "my buddy's leucistic baby Monocle Cobras were "cute little Rat Snakes or something", and when I pointed out the labels on the containers, he replied, "hmph. Must have put these in the wrong boxes."
You should have suggested he put his hand in so everyone can tell which is the wrong box. Mention that both bite like crazy and he will have to examine the wounds, punctures or lost a fight with a hack saw to really tell which is which.

 

[pitbulllady]

What I fail to understand is the laid back laconic attitude. That comes in part from being born and raised hilltribe in the boondocks I suppose, but still, what happened to erring on the side of caution? What about some maternal instincts of concern? How about, can you pick out which one is the cobra?

Here is a nice comparison. A Kaouthai and an Asian ratter, both mature. The ratter's color (in bright sunlight anyway) makes it obvious. Note the false spinal ridge on the cobra. That's just it tensing as it negotiates a branch. (Note the ratter has tensed as well and the greater muscular development of the constrictor can be clearly seen). Both are quite at home in trees and bushes which they often climb to get some sun on those chilly mornings. This pic gives away which is which in the above picture.

From what I've seen, especially with the kings, raising the hood in threat/warning posture is entirely optional. I watched a young king strike, munching tadpoles and frogs, way over 100 times without the slightest expansion of it's hood. They have no reason to raise their hoods while hunting normally, as down in the termite tunnels hunting other snakes.

PBL: "my buddy's leucistic baby Monocle Cobras were "cute little Rat Snakes or something", and when I pointed out the labels on the containers, he replied, "hmph. Must have put these in the wrong boxes."
You should have suggested he put his hand in so everyone can tell which is the wrong box. Mention that both bite like crazy and he will have to examine the wounds, punctures or lost a fight with a hack saw to really tell which is which.

Well, here in the US, "Rat Snake" generally means something in the genus Pantherophis, a native group of constrictors, which are MOSTLY docile snakes. I say "mostly" because one of the most notorious attitudes is often to be found among the Pantherophis obsoletta lindheimeri family lines, aka Texas Rats. One of the few snakes I've owned over these many decades that I could never tame was a gorgeous female leucistic TX Rat, one of the very few snakes that would bite while being held. There are snakes that will bite when you reach for them, but they stop biting once picked up.
Fortunately for the idiots that show up at reptile shows, the venomous animals are kept underneath a mesh net, in escape-proof containers that are marked with red tape to designate them as dangerous, otherwise I'm certain that there will be know-it-alls who want to prove that the snakes aren't venomous, or macho individuals with far more testosterone than good sense who want to prove their manhood in public(we see quite a few of that type show up, boasting about how they can "handle" venomous snakes and other dangerous animals. They often get laughed out of the building or just leave when they figure out that no one is impressed, and I've see a couple actually thrown out by security), and then there's always the lawsuit chasers who WANT to be bitten, so they can either sue and get their 15 minutes of fame as a "victim", or the AR's who want to be bitten so they can make a point about how we should ban those awful snakes. In all these years of having reptile sales/shows that include venomous, we've only had one bite incident, and that was a guy who'd bought a Copperhead and was carrying it out, when it managed to get a fang through an airhole in its container. Apparently it was a dry bite, since the guy showed no symptoms and no one heard anymore about it. Believe me, it would have been all over the news if he'd gone to a hospital, which goes to show just how rare venomous snake bites are in the US, that they make headline news.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

We had a fantastic comedy at the snake farm a while ago. The handlers put on the usual show with a couple of Kaouthai, hoods up in threat mode in the circle with bleachers around. After the show a couple of guys from Europe wanted to do the macho thing and the handlers, much more adept at handling snakes than dumb tourists somewhat permitted. The guys were dancing around the cobras and being all daring while their buddies took pictures.

Well, I know the old man who runs that place. Sour and dour and grumpy at the best of times. He was moving a ratter when it -accidentally- got loose in the ring. I know the guy just wanted to test his kids and the other handlers though nobody would dare accuse him of it.
Anyway, into the rodeo enters a warmed up and royally pissed off Ptyas. Now, the Asian ratter has a well deserved reputation of being the most bite happy critter on the first 72 planets in our solar system.

A handler dived past one clown and got it by the tail. But he knew and knew the difference between Kaouthai and ratter. As the ratter jerked he just let go and jumped back. Now get this. The ratter had been off the ground for most of it's body length. As it's tail was dropping to the ground it struck in complete defiance of gravity coming completely off the ground. It shifted it's trajectory as it struck as the handler had moved, zapping the clown in the midsection.

The handlers went into automatic mode and started rounding up the two cobras and the heck with the ratter. The ratter started to zoom out of the arena and the other clown dived and got it's tail. 3 seconds of blur. The guy that grabbed it's tail got tagged on the arm then the shin. His buddy approached and got whammed in the face on the side of his nose, drawing blood a 1/4 inch from his eye. The snake was ballistic insane during those moments, off the ground more than on it. Both fools backed off and the old man demonstrated his skill. As the ratter left the arena the man circled the bleachers then deftly pounced. He got his foot on the snake about mid body. As the snake struck, tagging him on the leg he got a grab a foot from it's head, then snake got him again on the thumb and he got it behind the head. He causally accepted getting a few nips just to corral the critter.

In less than a minute and 7 or 8 tags on three people. Be glad no venomous snake is anywhere near that crazy.

Oh yes. A couple of weeks ago they introduced a piglet into the big king cobra's little slice of heaven just to see if it would like to try ham. The cobra ignored the pig for a couple of minutes. Nobody saw what happened. Suddenly the piglet went WHAM against the side of the cage maybe 3 feet in the air. It dropped to the ground, did a little wriggle and was dead. The snake didn't have any further interest in it. What we guessed had happened was the snake struck around the speed of light, packing the punch of several feet of it's 3 inch thick body. I doubt it even had it's mouth open. The force of the blow and the pig hitting the wire at a roof post was enough to kill.


Oh YES!!! less than a week ago across the river from us. I heard the yells from some guys building a house over there and went to look. They were making half hearted attempts to corral a snake. They warned me off when I got close. And glory be. One dying mongoose wriggling in the high grass that tried to take on a Siamensis. Good on you, spit monster! (I hate mongoose) The snake got away.

 

[Thistles]

Oh my gosh, I am so glad your niece is ok! She is a lucky little girl to have an educated and concerned uncle!

The story about the Ptyas and the tourists... gold!

My mother is a "snake-lover" and one of those nature-loving girls who spent most of her childhood outside in fields and woods and streams flipping rocks for snakes and crayfish. She knows what copperheads, cottonmouths and timber rattlesnakes look like. She taught me what to look out for when I was a young nature-loving girl who spent most of her childhood outside in fields and woods and streams chasing mantids and lizards and hellgrammites. I did come across several copperheads in my youth, and was easily able to identify and avoid them. It's very important to at least know your local species! In spite of her local knowledge, though, when I went abroad her motherly advice was, "all venomous snakes have cat pupils." Facepalm! In Sri Lanka they certainly do not! In addition to having local knowledge, it is important not to try to apply that very specific knowledge too broadly!

 

[The Snark]

Oh my gosh, I am so glad your niece is ok! She is a lucky little girl to have an educated and concerned uncle!

The story about the Ptyas and the tourists... gold!

...when I went abroad her motherly advice was, "all venomous snakes have cat pupils." Facepalm! In Sri Lanka they certainly do not! In addition to having local knowledge, it is important not to try to apply that very specific knowledge too broadly!

Now she wants to go back to the hospital and play with prep packs. She's intrigued by the ER. Maybe we have a budding paramed or even a nurse or doctor.

In some dark recess of my mind, as I watched those tourists prance about with Kaouthai that were just saying 'leave me alone!', I visualized them trying that number out with rattlers: Hey! Only 54 tags in 10 minutes! Not bad!

The cynic in me immediately considered the possibility your mom had a secret desire to get rid of you: Go get a good close look at the eyes of every snake you see, dear. :sarcasm:

 

[Thistles]

The cynic in me immediately considered the possibility your mom had a secret desire to get rid of you: Go get a good close look at the eyes of every snake you see, dear. :sarcasm:

Haha! Yeah, I generally won't be gazing deeply into their eyes. I should just tell her that fuzzy spiders aren't dangerous and hope she visits Australia or Brazil!