Skittish Vs. Docile

[FitzzSimmons]

Yo guys,
SO basically i went to feed my P.sazimai and Brachypelma smithi and per the usual my sazimai dashes to it's hide as if it has discovered Russia is going to bomb the UK whereas my brachy took it's meal so calmly as if it felt bad if eating its prey and this sparked a question in my mind - what makes certain species skittish/docile compared to other species. SO i was hoping someone perhaps could give me some scientific knowledge on what contributes to certain species behaving the way they do.
P.S I understand that individuals can have very different behaviours but in this thread i'm talking about general species e.g. P.sazimai are known to be VERY skittish compared to a G.rosea who are known to be rather docile.
Cheers

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I have no research papers to refer to so take this with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a correlation between environment and behavior in this regard. The more skittish/ high strung/ aggressive/ etc. a tarantula is the more hostile the environment they come from. "Hostile environment" can be high competition for resources with other organisms, high probability of predation, and so on. Grammostola rosea for example comes from the Andes mountain region in Chile which is a hostile environment by way of weather, but the tarantula isn't in high competition for resources (food, water, territory, etc.) with other organisms. The environment G. rosea comes from is quite barren. Contrast that with the Amazon jungle, or any tropical rainforest ecosystem, which is the exact opposite of the Andes mountains and you can see why a tarantula like Theraphosa blondi is so high strung. Tropical rainforest ecosystems are incredibly hostile places and animals that live there need to be able to defend themselves from predators and be able to handle the pressures other organisms put on them for natural resources. In a sense, one can view a highly skittish tarantula as behaving in a way in which everything is out to kill them. That behavior would be necessary in the environment they evolved in because everything really is out to kill them!

 

[FitzzSimmons]

I have no research papers to refer to so take this with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a correlation between environment and behavior in this regard. The more skittish/ high strung/ aggressive/ etc. a tarantula is the more hostile the environment they come from. "Hostile environment" can be high competition for resources with other organisms, high probability of predation, and so on. Grammostola rosea for example comes from the Andes mountain region in Chile which is a hostile environment by way of weather, but the tarantula isn't in high competition for resources (food, water, territory, etc.) with other organisms. The environment G. rosea comes from is quite barren. Contrast that with the Amazon jungle, or any tropical rainforest ecosystem, which is the exact opposite of the Andes mountains and you can see why a tarantula like Theraphosa blondi is so high strung. Tropical rainforest ecosystems are incredibly hostile places and animals that live there need to be able to defend themselves from predators and be able to handle the pressures other organisms put on them for natural resources. In a sense, one can view a highly skittish tarantula as behaving in a way in which everything is out to kill them. That behavior would be necessary in the environment they evolved in because everything really is out to kill them!

Wow thank you that actually made a lot of sense. That's very interesting, so although skittish behaviour may be passed on through mother to sling, is it possible that as slings grow they become significantly less skittish because they are now in an environment that has 0 competition so they no longer need to be skittish?

 

[basin79]

I have no research papers to refer to so take this with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a correlation between environment and behavior in this regard. The more skittish/ high strung/ aggressive/ etc. a tarantula is the more hostile the environment they come from. "Hostile environment" can be high competition for resources with other organisms, high probability of predation, and so on. Grammostola rosea for example comes from the Andes mountain region in Chile which is a hostile environment by way of weather, but the tarantula isn't in high competition for resources (food, water, territory, etc.) with other organisms. The environment G. rosea comes from is quite barren. Contrast that with the Amazon jungle, or any tropical rainforest ecosystem, which is the exact opposite of the Andes mountains and you can see why a tarantula like Theraphosa blondi is so high strung. Tropical rainforest ecosystems are incredibly hostile places and animals that live there need to be able to defend themselves from predators and be able to handle the pressures other organisms put on them for natural resources. In a sense, one can view a highly skittish tarantula as behaving in a way in which everything is out to kill them. That behavior would be necessary in the environment they evolved in because everything really is out to kill them!

What a bloody post that was. Got to admit I've always put it down as a tarantulas particular personality.

Your post has been a real eye opener and has certainly given me something to think about.

Cheers ears.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Wow thank you that actually made a lot of sense. That's very interesting, so although skittish behaviour may be passed on through mother to sling, is it possible that as slings grow they become significantly less skittish because they are now in an environment that has 0 competition so they no longer need to be skittish?

I see where you are coming from but the disposition of a tarantula would be all genetic I would think. A high strung tarantula can't have that disposition bred out of them due to being raised in a calm environment. Decades of captive breeding of Pterinochilus murinus "Usumbara" (aka "OBT") would be a good example of that. In other words, a tarantula's disposition is all nature and no nurture. Besides, ask the tarantula if being in captivity is a less hostile place than their native environment! In captivity, there are these giant things poking at them, staring at them, picking them up, they experience frequent earthquakes by way of a keeper moving their enclosures around. Not to mention, food falls from the sky instead of walking up to them! That sounds like a hostile environment to me!

 

[Nightstalker47]

I see where you are coming from but the disposition of a tarantula would be all genetic

Mostly yes...but tarantulas can still learn to certain extent.

Ever notice the correlation of hyper defensive specimens being poked at, blown on, or just messed with constantly to prove how "mean" they are...sadly some keepers really do this, for no good reason. I would think the tarantula could eventually associate the person as a major threat(having had many negative previous encounters)...and thus behave even more defensively during every/any interaction. My understanding is that it could be partially learned behavior as well.

 

[Sinned]

They probably sense (way!) more then I give them credit for (tactile & vibrations), it's like me trying to understand what a dog can "do" with it's sense of smell and what a cat can see in the "dark/low light conditions".

But might this be just stress & agitation and a general feeling of unsafe conditions, instead of a certain person doing so? My T's will probably show the same response to me blowing on them every week, as they would as my wife doing so only once per 3 months. As my experience is limited, and I wont be stressing them out to find out, I have no real idea what is the case. But, it's my best guess

I do really like @AphonopelmaTX explanation though, but it just makes me wonder/curious in the case of NW's and their urticating hairs. The tropical species seem a bit more "feisty" then others, but are there many predators that are able to ignore them(hairs)? From what I read, insects and mammals are affected by them... are they just as effective vs reptiles&birds? I do know of the wasps that "hunt" T's for their offspring. But are there (many) others?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Mostly yes...but tarantulas can still learn to certain extent.

Ever notice the correlation of hyper defensive specimens being poked at, blown on, or just messed with constantly to prove how "mean" they are...sadly some keepers really do this, for no good reason. I would think the tarantula could eventually associate the person as a major threat(having had many negative previous encounters)...and thus behave even more defensively during every/any interaction. My understanding is that it could be partially learned behavior as well.

If you could prove that, then I will believe it.

I've messed with plenty of my own spiders in the same ways you described over the years to get used to them and I can't say they have ever made an association with me and the stimulus. To me, it looked like the tarantulas that were at the receiving end of some harassment reacted as if it was new over and over again. I never got the impression any of my tarantulas thought "oh this guy again." That being said though, I have had tarantulas- like many others I'm sure have- change personalities on me. Docile tarantulas became more aggressive and aggressive tarantulas became docile. Whether there is a physiological reason for it or environmental, I never can tell, but it does happen.

It isn't too far fetched though to think tarantulas have some capacity for memory and can make associations with smells or maybe even visuals or other sensory input with their cause. I've always believed tarantulas, and other mygales, have more going on in their brains than the majority of people would think, but I also believe it wouldn't be too much more.

 

[Nightstalker47]

I've messed with plenty of my own spiders in the same ways you described over the years to get used to them

I didn't take you for that kind of guy...

If you could prove that, then I will believe it.

Fair enough, check mated me with that one. This is all just conjecture, you know that.

But think of it this way, if they can at least associate you with danger, and the defensive displays as a means to avoid that....wouldn't that be learning?

Just something I noticed, in most of the "evil tarantula" videos theres an idiot poking and blowing on the spider. I cant help but speculate that perhaps the tarantula could learn to associate the two, over several interactions that is.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I didn't take you for that kind of guy...

Fair enough, check mated me with that one. This is all just conjecture, you know that.

But think of it this way, if they can at least associate you with danger, and the defensive displays as a means to avoid that....wouldn't that be learning?

Just something I noticed, in most of the "evil tarantula" videos theres an idiot poking and blowing on the spider. I cant help but speculate that perhaps the tarantula could learn to associate the two, over several interactions that is.

I was kidding around with the "if you can prove it, I will believe it" statement. I can't prove anything I wrote so it wouldn't be appropriate to expect it of anyone else. I don't want to be that person who puts down or dismisses someone else's ideas. You could very well be onto something for all anyone knows!

But I AM that kind of guy who harasses my spiders every once in a while! Ok only half joking this time. I don't harass my tarantulas in the same way you have seen from the nimrods that do so for the sake of entertainment or to show off to their friends. What I mean is I work with my tarantulas every once in a while to keep up my skills in the process of capture and release. Mainly for the eventual event of rehousing. One day I may want to keep those bitey old world species again and I need to keep my comfort level up with the skittish ones I have. Sometimes "working with my tarantulas" means poking and prodding them with a paintbrush, opening and closing the lid quickly with a bit of force, and so on. I like to get an idea of a tarantula's tolerance for disturbance. Especially if it's a species I never had before.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Not to mention, food falls from the sky instead of walking up to them! That sounds like a hostile environment to me!

Either that or a basis for a religion...

 

[viper69]

I have no research papers to refer to so take this with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a correlation between environment and behavior in this regard. The more skittish/ high strung/ aggressive/ etc. a tarantula is the more hostile the environment they come from. "Hostile environment" can be high competition for resources with other organisms, high probability of predation, and so on. Grammostola rosea for example comes from the Andes mountain region in Chile which is a hostile environment by way of weather, but the tarantula isn't in high competition for resources (food, water, territory, etc.) with other organisms. The environment G. rosea comes from is quite barren. Contrast that with the Amazon jungle, or any tropical rainforest ecosystem, which is the exact opposite of the Andes mountains and you can see why a tarantula like Theraphosa blondi is so high strung. Tropical rainforest ecosystems are incredibly hostile places and animals that live there need to be able to defend themselves from predators and be able to handle the pressures other organisms put on them for natural resources. In a sense, one can view a highly skittish tarantula as behaving in a way in which everything is out to kill them. That behavior would be necessary in the environment they evolved in because everything really is out to kill them!

I've always speculated the same as you. Of course we would be proven wrong if a OW E. sp Red is discovered

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I've always speculated the same as you. Of course we would be proven wrong if a OW E. sp Red is discovered

There are exceptions. Avicularia avicularia is from the same region of South America as many high strung species, but it is docile. Not sure what the contributing factors for that are.

 

[viper69]

There are exceptions. Avicularia avicularia is from the same region of South America as many high strung species, but it is docile. Not sure what the contributing factors for that are.

Indeed, at the time of writing I was thinking terrestrially though heh. True on Avics, and by all accounts some have slightly different behavior than others, A avics often are a bit more skittish than A. sp metallica.