Shy pacman won't eat

[arachnocat]

I got a little pacman frog at a pet store near my house about 5 days ago. It was a Petco, and I know the person in charge of reptiles takes good care of them. She said this little guy had been eating really well and has grown a lot since they first got him. He's about 2.5"

I have my pacman in a 10 gallon tank with peat moss substrate topped with moist spagham moss. I've been spraying him everyday to keep him moist and the humidity seems to be ok. I haven't seen the little guy eat though. I've tried dubias, earthworms and mealworms. When I put them near his mouth he buries his little head in the soil.
Is it normal for them not to eat for a while when you first get them? I'm hoping he just needs some time to settle in and maybe hasn't been handfed before. I'm going to put some crickets in tonight and just leave him alone to see what happens.

Anyone else have trouble with a new pacman not eating?

 

[OldHag]

Im having problems with one Ive had since Aug. It ate great til about Feb, then WHAM!..no more!
Still looks fat and actively digs and moves around, so Im trying not to worry. I think Ill up the heat a little as its been pretty cold....

I had a packman a few years ago that I had to actually pick and poke the food against its mouth to get it to eat.... Once it got going it sucked down anything that came with in striking distance.

 

[sweetmisery]

Just got mine last Saturday, both eats well. I think 10 gallons is too big for a 2.5" pacman. Try to put it in a smaller container(critter keeper). I feed mine guppies and crickets, theyre about 1.5".

I put moist cocopeat as the substrate and a wide shallow dish. Even when them each using a tong, they even bite the tong. The breeder who sold me these, told me that she puts them in a small container(4 inches) with shallow water. She just placed a rock for it to jump at when it wants dry ground. She said they love guppies.

 

[Jer]

There's no such thing as "too big" of a tank, and in fact, anything less than 10 gallons is too small.

 

[arachnocat]

I didn't know they moved around to hunt. I thought they waited for the food to come to them. Maybe I'll put in a little dish of mealworms and see if he finds it. He does seem to change spots every night.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

I got mine a year ago, nearly to the day. (He moved in on March 10th, 2007)He is still in a 5 gallon tank and is doing fine in it. He will be moving up to a ten gallon next month or perhaps May at the latest. I don't think that he would suffer if I had to postpone for a month or so, though. They really do spend most of their time sitting in one spot waiting for lunch. I believe ten gallon tanks are probably quite suitable and that anything over twenty gallons is probably a waste of space.

Mine pursued food a little more actively when I got him, but soon settled into the routine of having it herded to him and later just being tong fed.

Five days isn't terribly long for one to refuse food. Mine has gone that longer than that. I've read accounts of some going for month-long fasts. And of course if they decide to go into estivation, they will remained buried and eat nothing until they come out of it.

I think that maybe a lot of them slow down a bit during the winter months. I guess the best thing to do is keep them at an even photoperiod (12 hours daylight, twelve hours of darkness is usually suggested) and maintain optimal temperatures and humidity levels. (Recommendations vary, I run my cage around 80-85F in the day and around 75 at night). And then hope for the best. I think when they display a noticeable loss of body mass is the time to start getting concerned.

Watch that spaghum moss. It generally is frowned upon by most keepers because of the danger of ingestion leading to possible impaction. I'd remove it if it were me, but it's your call.

 

[sweetmisery]

Cool info! Anyways, anyone tried getting bit by a pacman frog? Do you handle yours?

 

[xchondrox]

I had a little albino about the size of a 50cent pice latch onto my index finger for about a minute, It was amusing! We use to keep ours in small kritter keepers with paper towel and a 1/2-3/4" of water, Makes it pretty easy to clean. They eat alot and poop alot so I'd advise going that route when yours starts eating. Also we kept ours at 78ish, maybe hes alittle on the cool side? Id just give him alittle more time, it'll come around they have a pretty good prey drive.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Mine tagged me once when he was a lot smaller. He took a ride on my finger for a moment before letting go. It didn't hurt, but I don't think I'd enjoy getting bitten now. At his current size, it might be a little more uncomfortable. If you work in close proximity to your frogs business end, it's a good idea to be prepared to be chomped. Otherwise it is quite easy to send them flying when you jerk back in surprise. I was expecting mine to nab me and I still lifted him about 6 inches off the bottom of the tank.

I never handle him except when performing maintenance. And then only when I am wearing gloves. I take those opportunities to examine him to make sure there are no health issues I should be aware of. I have only touched him one time without wearing gloves and that was when he made a break for it while I was cleaning out his cage. I had to grab him before he hopped behind a large, HEAVY entertainment center. Don't let the pudgy guys fool you, they can move when they want to. Not necessarily gracefully, but they get the job done.
By and large, amphibians are best suited as display animals. They are reputed to stress fairly easy and they have delicate skins which can absorb about anything they come in contact with. Of course, being a hands-off keeper, I am relying on testimonials, not first-hand experience when it comes to those matters.

 

[sweetmisery]

You said it... they are quite fast for their size. I was trying to clean the poop in the dish, and had to transfer him to another small critter keeper, when he suddenly jumped down. Thank God it was on the table. So it didnt hurt him... Of course I was scared like Hell, but after picking him up, he still try to escape. After hours to a day of observation, he is well.

Entertaining little creatures indeed.

 

[AndrewH]

There's no such thing as "too big" of a tank, and in fact, anything less than 10 gallons is too small.

Actually there is, and too large an enclosure will stress the animal, causing it to go off feed. 10 gallons is too large, especially for juvenile Horned frogs...it causes unneeded stress. They don't utilize majority of their enclosure, being ambush predators.
_______________________

Your set up sounds ok, but ditch the misting every day. Don't concentrate on actual moistness, and look more-so into maintaining actual humidity levels. They aren't an "aquatic" amphibian, per se. They're terrestrial ambush predators. Too much moisture will cause problems such as skin lesions, sores, and rashes.

If he/she is just a juvenile; pick up a small/medium critter keeper, or use a 6 qt. rubbermaid that you can place in the tank for the time being until he grows. You can get these at wal-mart or the dollar store for around $1-2 each. The rubbermaid will help keep humidity at an ideal level, and help with keeping him in good condition.

Temperature plays a vital role in feeding, as well as overall health and growth. Keep them at around 78-80F...just don't let the temps creep too high. High temperatures are around 82F+.

They will move around to hunt, but not very far. They prefer an ambush position, and would rather wait for passing prey, rather than walk around. It's less energy burnt, so they gain more from the actual meal they catch.

After you get him at proper temps, and humidity; give him a couple days to settle and become more stimulated. Then attempt a new feed. Basically, go for something about 1/2 as wide as their mouth, every couple days. Stick to invertebrate diets though Actual vertebrate diets, such as mice really damage their liver and kidneys, shortening their lifespan.

If there's anything else I can help you with, give me a shout and I'll try my best

 

[Jer]

Actually there is, and too large an enclosure will stress the animal, causing it to go off feed. 10 gallons is too large, especially for juvenile Horned frogs...it causes unneeded stress.

That is absolute and utter nonsense. That would suggest that wild horned frogs are always stressed and go off feed because they aren't in an enclosure less than 10 gallons in size, which is completely fallacious. Sure, as was said by Tim, anything over 20 gallons is a waste of space (at least from a keeper's perspective), but this extra space will not stress a horned frog and cause it to stop feeding.

 

[AndrewH]

Actually your wrong again. The open, larger spaces causes large amounts of stress. They find one safe, secure area as a "home" and utilize it in the wild. They don't actively walk around, or wander in search of prey, nor home. They select a simple area with cover, that might attract a variety of prey, or be more active with prey; then sit and wait.

To say that would suggest that other amphibians and reptiles wouldn't stress all the same, if given much larger enclosures, such as snakes, salamanders, etc.

 

[Jer]

Actually your wrong again. The open, larger spaces causes large amounts of stress. They find one safe, secure area as a "home" and utilize it in the wild. They don't actively walk around, or wander in search of prey, nor home. They select a simple area with cover, that might attract a variety of prey, or be more active with prey; then sit and wait.

No it is you that is wrong again. You are correct in that horned frogs are ambush predators, and they don't do much else but sit and wait for food to come along, in a "home" if that is what you wish to call it, but being kept in a large enclosure will not cause stress. That's a dumb statement. If anything, being confined to too small of a space will cause stress. What you are saying is something that you would hear out of the mouth of a 16 year old Petco employee. Utter gibberish.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

A young pacman will not suffer undue stress in a large tank. It isn't needed, but it isn't going to hurt them. They will do what they do in nature; find an area they are most comfortable in, stick mostly to that area burrowed down, and move if hungry (in nature, because the area doesn't have a good prey density. In captivity, because the food is hanging out on the other side of the tank). Period. Nature is big. Big enclosures aren't any more stressful than being out in the woods. Your main concern is making sure the animal gets food, and making sure he has easy acess to appropriate heat. It is best to tong feed pacman frogs anyways; prevents them from consuming substrate, ensures that you know exactly what nutrition they are getting, and prevents prey animals from chewing on them (even crickets can be vicious if they're hungry enough).

If the animal is a difficult eater I suggest attempting to tong feed every other day or so (to give him minimal stress) in a dim room at night, keeping the day temp up in the low 80's. As others have said, they often go on lengthy fasts, and it isn't considered problematic unless they start to lose mass. So, use a little gram scale to check his weight periodically (if you handle, wash your hands first and rub them with soil from the enclosure to reduce the skin oils). If he starts dropping you may have to intervene, but warmer temps and otherwise not bothering him is probably the best approach.
I would ditch the spagnum for a young frog; it is an impaction risk. My one pacman was kept on spagnum and pooped pure moss for about a month (during which time he was very uncomfortable and unwilling to eat). It is pretty safe for larger frogs but IMO unsafe for smaller frogs. It could be part of the reason why he isn't eating if he was kept on it in the store.

 

[arachnocat]

Thanks for the great advice everyone! I removed the spagnum moss and changed the substrate to half coconut fiber and half peat moss. The peat stayed a little too dry by itself.
He ate 3 crickets on Saturday. I tried to give him mealworms and roaches too but he pushed them away. I guess he just really loves crickets. That's probably the only food they gave him at the pet store. Hopefully he will get used to a variety of foods.
A few hours after he ate the crickets he completely buried himself in the substrate and hasn't come out since. It's been a bit chilly at night in my house so that might be why. I've read that it's good for a frog to go through estivation once in a while. If that's what he's doing, can I put a heat pad under him to wake him up or should I just let him rest till warmer weather?
I have some cute pics of him but photobucket isn't working this morning so I'll try to get them up later. I underestimated his size a bit. He's a little over 3" I think.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

A few hours after he ate the crickets he completely buried himself in the substrate and hasn't come out since. It's been a bit chilly at night in my house so that might be why

No, I think that's just what pacman frogs DO. Almost as exciting as owning a tarantula.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

You can use a heating pad if you can't keep the day time temperature around 80-84 degrees, but a night time dip into the 70's is considered acceptable and burrowing behavior is quite normal; they normally stay buried to the eyeballs in dirt when not eating or soaking. However, if you do elect to add the heating pad, it is generally suggested it be placed on the side much like it would be for burrowing roaches as the frog sometimes burrows right down to the mat thinking he is escaping the heat only to be badly burned. Some keepers note that putting a layer of reptile carpet underneath the substrate is an effective solution to this problem since bottom heating is technically more efficient. Also, if you get a heating pad, use a desert heating pad; the tropical ones are seldom effective enough to penetrate the depth of substrate (especially if placed on the side rather than beneath).

 

[arachnocat]

Thanks RoachGirlRen. I think I'll just leave him at room temp. He'll probably come out eventually. Here are some pics:

bathing..

​

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Now THERE'S a face with some personality!

I've been under the impression (and I'm open for correction) that while many herps benefit from an estivation period, horned frogs just do it when conditions are a bit adverse, and while it does no harm, it holds no benefit for them. (It may play a role in breeding, but I've never looked into that aspect of their husbandry) So, if it were me, I'd try to get his temperatures to the optimal range, as well as his humidity.
As Mushroom Spore pointed out though, chowing down and hunkering into the substrate is their style, and chances are good that he isn't going into estivation anyway.

Mind you, I've only been keeping one of the critters for a year now, so don't look at my thoughts as authoritative. But I have done a good deal of research, which I'm merely passing along.