Sexual dimorphism in Ephebopus murinus

[klawfran3]

I've heard a lot of odd things about this species and sexually maturing, and I was wondering if anyone with experience with them can clear it up. I've spent a while dredging up old threads and reading, but everything has conflicting information. I feel as though I've gotten nowhere and the whole topic has become more muddled

I have heard and read that E. murinus shows sexual dimorphism before maturing, with males being a brown color their whole life and females turning jet black. But I've also heard that males will turn black as they get larger too, then go back to being brown when they mature out. Is anyone able to confirm or deny whether the males always stay brown or turn black as they age? All of the old threads I could dig up have conflicting information on this.

There also seemed to be some debate on different size variants of the species too, where there was an extremely small maturing variant and a larger more "typical" one that matured at a larger size. No one seemed to agree on details about them and then all debate just vanished. This was years ago (one thread was back from 2003) so I'm curious if that all got settled out or there's just a "hobby form" like T. albopilosus where any actual differences have been bred into a muddy mess.

So I guess the questions are: at what sizes have your males matured out, and what color were they beforehand? And if you have any other information about their dimorphism that would be great to hear. Thanks everyone

 

[NMTs]

I had a juvenile male that passed before he matured, but he was definitely more on the brown/tan end of the color spectrum. He was just around 4" when he died, so no telling how big he would have been when he matured, but I would imagine he would have been 4.5" or so. Not sure if this info is helpful to you, but it's what I know...

 

[klawfran3]

I had a juvenile male that passed before he matured, but he was definitely more on the brown/tan end of the color spectrum. He was just around 4" when he died, so no telling how big he would have been when he matured, but I would imagine he would have been 4.5" or so. Not sure if this info is helpful to you, but it's what I know... View attachment 438965

Anything helps at this point lol. It's nice to see how brown he is though, hopefully more people can chime in and we can compare photos!

 

[gfpkorn]

I have an E. Murinus, about 4" or so that has molted last night for the 2nd time in 3 months. Not sure how big it is yet. I can see through a small hole in its borrow on the side of the cage that it's carapace has went from the standard light tan, to a dark, almost black with a tan Starburst-like pattern. The legs went from very dark to a brown. I haven't seen the front legs yet to see if there's tibial hooks or not. It's time for a rehouse in 10 days I guess, so I will reply with what I find. It was 2.5" when we first got it. Growing extremely fast.

Here's a 5 week old pic

 

[klawfran3]

Here's a 5 week old pic

This looks very similar to the one I have now. It is about 4" DLS and has not molted for me yet either. Do you know if yours is male or female?

Also did you say yours molted 2x in 3 months despite being almost 4"? Thats a crazy fast growth rate.

 

[gfpkorn]

This looks very similar to the one I have now. It is about 4" DLS and has not molted for me yet either. Do you know if yours is male or female?

Also did you say yours molted 2x in 3 months despite being almost 4"? Thats a crazy fast growth rate.

Yes. 2x in 3 months. Not sure if male or female, because it keeps eating the molts. 1st molt for me was a week after I got it on Feb 20th. 2nd molt was last night.

I also keep mine at 82⁰f and 75% humidity. I'm pretty sure the higher temp is contributing to its growth. Eats one LG dubia a week except for the 2 weeks before molt and 1 week after

 

[klawfran3]

Yes. 2x in 3 months. Not sure if male or female, because it keeps eating the molts. 1st molt for me was a week after I got it on Feb 20th. 2nd molt was last night.

I also keep mine at 82⁰f and 75% humidity. I'm pretty sure the higher temp is contributing to its growth. Eats one LG dubia a week except for the 2 weeks before molt and 1 week after

Yeah the room mines been in has been pretty cold, 55-70F for a lot of the winter and finally getting up to 75. She also doesn't have the best appetite and finally started accepting dubia. I'm really hoping it molts soon so I can double check the sex, since it seems like from the info I've gathered they stay a slight brown til the 4-5" mark before either turning jet black as a female or remaining tan as a male.

 

[gfpkorn]

Yeah the room mines been in has been pretty cold, 55-70F for a lot of the winter and finally getting up to 75. She also doesn't have the best appetite and finally started accepting dubia. I'm really hoping it molts soon so I can double check the sex, since it seems like from the info I've gathered they stay a slight brown til the 4-5" mark before either turning jet black as a female or remaining tan as a male.

Oh? Mines turning black. I hope that's the case! As I said, I can see in the burrow, and it's absolutely stunning.

 

[klawfran3]

Oh? Mines turning black. I hope that's the case! As I said, I can see in the burrow, and it's absolutely stunning.

I'd honestly be tempted to just excavate the burrow just a little bit to pull the remains of the molt and confirm your spiders sex. But also I wouldn't want to disturb them. I hope when mine finally molts it doesn't chew it up and instead just tosses it

 

[gfpkorn]

I'd honestly be tempted to just excavate the burrow just a little bit to pull the remains of the molt and confirm your spiders sex. But also I wouldn't want to disturb them. I hope when mine finally molts it doesn't chew it up and instead just tosses it

I rehoused today, and confirmed male. Hooked out and boxing gloves

 

[gfpkorn]

Here's some pics

 

[klawfran3]

Here's some pics

Oh no! Well, if mine turns out female and molts soon I'd take him off your hands haha

How big is his DLS would you say? Because if he was 4" before molting he's probably be pretty large!

 

[gfpkorn]

Oh no! Well, if mine turns out female and molts soon I'd take him off your hands haha

How big is his DLS would you say? Because if he was 4" before molting he's probably be pretty large!

He's over 5". Very leggy. I found someone local that has a female, so hopefully in a few weeks after he makes his sperm web, I'll mate him. Probably try it a few times if all goes well. Fingers crossed he makes it out alive. I've read that they're a relatively easy species to pair and that the females don't eat the males often.

 

[klawfran3]

He's over 5". Very leggy. I found someone local that has a female, so hopefully in a few weeks after he makes his sperm web, I'll mate him. Probably try it a few times if all goes well. Fingers crossed he makes it out alive. I've read that they're a relatively easy species to pair and that the females don't eat the males often.

Best of luck! I'm rooting for him!

 

[gfpkorn]

Best of luck! I'm rooting for him!

So just to update, paired him with my friends female and she laid her eggsac about 4 weeks ago. I managed to locate a mature female in my area, bought her and paired him with her, and she is now definitely gravid. She's a lighter color, with almost no blacks. So im going to assume that maybe there's a locality difference in the species somewhere.