Sexing wolf spiders

[jreidsma]

Hi everyone

(I'm in Michigan, in case you want to know)

Well, my father was moving some wood yesterday so I had to go outside and catch some stuff :sarcasm: I caught a small couple inch centipede (because my mom doesn't like the big ones like most people would get) and four larger wolf spiders.

Three of them kind of look bulkier than the other one. As long as it is the same species as the rest (they do have the same markings that I can tell) the one has really thin legs and the body shape is a bit smaller and more rounded.

The three ones are kind of burrowing a bit, while the thin legged one has not.

I tried finding out how to sex these on here and google. But the only thing I could find was something about their palps being bigger on males. I looked but couldn't seem to find anything on them that would yell male to me. Except that the one is not burrowing and has a different body shape.

I also caught a small one, but it had some sort of white specks on it so I let it go. It was probably just sand or soil but I didn't want to risk giving my Ts anything.

So, how would I go about sexing these? I am guessing just by the way it looks and its behavior that the thin legged one is male. I was thinking about maybe breeding them :sarcasm: just cause I can :wink: Unless they already are pregnant and about to have a egg sac, which i wouldn't doubt as I got all of them in the same location pretty much.

 

[Ciphor]

Hi everyone

(I'm in Michigan, in case you want to know)

Well, my father was moving some wood yesterday so I had to go outside and catch some stuff :sarcasm: I caught a small couple inch centipede (because my mom doesn't like the big ones like most people would get) and four larger wolf spiders.

Three of them kind of look bulkier than the other one. As long as it is the same species as the rest (they do have the same markings that I can tell) the one has really thin legs and the body shape is a bit smaller and more rounded.

The three ones are kind of burrowing a bit, while the thin legged one has not.

I tried finding out how to sex these on here and google. But the only thing I could find was something about their palps being bigger on males. I looked but couldn't seem to find anything on them that would yell male to me. Except that the one is not burrowing and has a different body shape.

I also caught a small one, but it had some sort of white specks on it so I let it go. It was probably just sand or soil but I didn't want to risk giving my Ts anything.

So, how would I go about sexing these? I am guessing just by the way it looks and its behavior that the thin legged one is male. I was thinking about maybe breeding them :sarcasm: just cause I can :wink: Unless they already are pregnant and about to have a egg sac, which i wouldn't doubt as I got all of them in the same location pretty much.

Sexing Lycosids can be as tough as ID'ing them. Basically, it's like trying to sex a small tarantula. Just like T's, Lycosids have very subtle dimorphism. In most species the differences in palps are so small that they elude even a trained eye.

So what do you need to get a conclusive sex? A good microscope. If you don't have one, your going to have to make a best guess. In larger species of Lycosa the females are very robust, with a wide full abdomen & cephalothorax. The females can be described as "Stocky, beefy". Males tend to be more slender, and will have longer legs. This sounds easier to spot then it is, and it takes having looked at a lot of them to get it right, contrary to what some might say.

Here is an example of a female and male with a strong dimorphism. Most cases are not this clear by a long a shoot. Fat males can look female, thin females can look male etc.

Male Hogna carolinensis http://bugguide.net/node/view/123333/bgimage
Female Hogna carolinensis http://bugguide.net/node/view/123338/bgimage

 

[jreidsma]

Once I get them in bigger containers I will try to get some pictures of the posted. Just for now (until I get the containers I ordered online) they are in small plastic cups, kind of like what is used to give people small amounts of candy or something at some restaurants.

I sold my microscope a few years ago, as it hurt my eyes to use it. I do have a professional grade magnifying lens for grading coins, but I don't think that would work :sarcasm:

Like you said, they are almost like small T's, that makes them more lovable :biggrin: :wink:

 

[Ciphor]

Once I get them in bigger containers I will try to get some pictures of the posted. Just for now (until I get the containers I ordered online) they are in small plastic cups, kind of like what is used to give people small amounts of candy or something at some restaurants.

I sold my microscope a few years ago, as it hurt my eyes to use it. I do have a professional grade magnifying lens for grading coins, but I don't think that would work :sarcasm:

Like you said, they are almost like small T's, that makes them more lovable :biggrin: :wink:

A hand mag might work to confirm the sex. It is really going to depend on the species tho. Hope you get some pictures up. We could help you a lot better with images. If you do get images, try and get ones like I posted above from bugguide. A good shot from above can give a lot of clues on ID as well as sex.

 

[jreidsma]

Thanks, I will try to get some good pictures in a few days after I get them moved

My $300 camera doesn't like to focus on small objects, but maybe if I put white paper under the spiders it will show up better.

 

[jreidsma]

Here they are:

One of the bigger ones jumped out of the container, I couldn't find it back

And the skinny legged one squeezed through the air holes! So I chased it and got it caught and put into a taller container with air holes only on the top. So they are now all in very tall containers. Maybe if I give them some sticks or something they will climb a little bit.

Here is the skinny legged one that I think may be male (the second picture above is also of the same spider I think):

I didn't know they could jump or contort so much to get out of the small air holes!

 

[Ciphor]

The good news is they all look like the same species.

Funny, I didnt read the text and just checked out images, and I was already thinking image 2 and 5 were male, but to be completely honest, I cannot say for certain, sorry. It could be 2 different species.

---------- Post added 06-07-2012 at 07:20 PM ----------

BTW the last image is your best image. The others need more light and are almost just a silhouette.

 

[jreidsma]

Thanks

I am going to keep them a little while and make sure that none of them are already pregnant. Then if they aren't I might try breeding them. If I watch then I can make sure they don't try to eat each other or anything.

I will see if I can get more pictures of them.

The one you thought was male has the same markings as the others, except for the abdomen. They look very similar but the markings don't look as dark on it as the others. But they look exactly the same almost except for body shape.

I have been finding these spiders for years but this is the first time I have seen one with very thin legs like the one we are thinking is male.

 

[catfishrod69]

Best way i have found to sex wolfies, is if its big, and has emboli, its male. If it doesnt ist probably female...

 

[Ciphor]

Best way i have found to sex wolfies, is if its big, and has emboli, its male. If it doesnt ist probably female...

I think you mean the conductor. The embolus is the median to tip of conductor which is sharp and has a small opening, much like the end of a needle.

Unfortunately male Lycosids have a very compact sexual organ design, and with smaller species like the ones in these images, you likely wont see anything without a microscope.

Here is an image to give you an idea. Keep in mind, most the exposed parts like the conductor, do not protrude and may be hidden behind setae. http://www.bioone.org/action/showFullPopup?doi=10.1636/H03-72.1&id=i0161-8202-34-1-1-f03

 

[catfishrod69]

Hmm didnt know that. Thanks. I have noticed that some species of wolf spiders are hard to tell when its a mature male though.

I think you mean the conductor. The embolus is the median to tip of conductor which is sharp and has a small opening, much like the end of a needle.

Unfortunately male Lycosids have a very compact sexual organ design, and with smaller species like the ones in these images, you likely wont see anything without a microscope.

Here is an image to give you an idea. Keep in mind, most the exposed parts like the conductor, do not protrude and may be hidden behind setae. http://www.bioone.org/action/showFullPopup?doi=10.1636/H03-72.1&id=i0161-8202-34-1-1-f03

 

[Ciphor]

Hmm didnt know that. Thanks. I have noticed that some species of wolf spiders are hard to tell when its a mature male though.

They can definitely be rough to sex & ID. I know a lot of experts that just avoid ID/Sexing from images alone all together.

 

[catfishrod69]

I totally understand that. I mean go in your backyard at night, look at all the wolf spiders. Alot of them seem to be juvies to the next one you look at, but once you look close enough, you start noticing that there are actually a bunch of different species crawling around.

They can definitely be rough to sex & ID. I know a lot of experts that just avoid ID/Sexing from images alone all together.

 

[Ciphor]

I totally understand that. I mean go in your backyard at night, look at all the wolf spiders. Alot of them seem to be juvies to the next one you look at, but once you look close enough, you start noticing that there are actually a bunch of different species crawling around.

Try living in WA lol. Friggin mini Pardosa running around everywhere. I every once and awhile hear about someone finding a Hogna but I'll be damned if I ever find them!

 

[jreidsma]

egg sac

Lol, the skinny, thin legged one that we thought was male. Well it just had an egg sac a few weeks ago... lol, I guess thats means its female.

Does anyone know how many babies it could have? And then maybe how big they are?

 

[Ciphor]

Lol, the skinny, thin legged one that we thought was male. Well it just had an egg sac a few weeks ago... lol, I guess thats means its female.

Does anyone know how many babies it could have? And then maybe how big they are?

They will be small. Very small. Usually around 20 slings.

Feed fruit flies.