Roach feeder observation question (orange head vs dubia)

[u bada]

I've been a little frustrated with dubia burying and it turned out my feeder source, a herp store, sell orange heads which my two larger twos have gotten to like more than dubias.

So I put an orange head in with the the a seemani last night and it did the bury thing before i could get to it. Real annoyed. usually with dubias i try to get them out, which eventually I manage to, but with the orange head i got concerned because they can prefer "meat" a bit much and potentially nibble things and didn't want it biting my girl so I went at in the sub to get it out and couldn't find it. Poor girl was a bit traumatized, but by morning she had already straightened her enclosure out... and lo and behold i guess the roach emerged at some point and she chomped, so 2nd time i checked on her there she was munching away. Kinda cute to see her bluish grey sheen munching on this bright red/orange roach (even though I find this roach to be super cute myself)

so question is, do dubias eventually emerge too? With my other larger girl the albopilosum she'll actually feel the roach under her in the ground and dig her out which is cool, but orange heads are more frenzied when they move than dubias... dubias supposedly don't prefer "meat" and won't nibble on t's so if they emerge on their own and attract enough attention to a T i'd feel ok about leaving them in an enclosure, and then I could just as well use dubias (orange heads are fiestier to work with).

 

[cold blood]

This is why you always crush the heads of roaches before feeding. They live for days, but are unable to burrow.

 

[EulersK]

so question is, do dubias eventually emerge too? With my other larger girl the albopilosum she'll actually feel the roach under her in the ground and dig her out which is cool, but orange heads are more frenzied when they move than dubias... dubias supposedly don't prefer "meat" and won't nibble on t's so if they emerge on their own and attract enough attention to a T i'd feel ok about leaving them in an enclosure, and then I could just as well use dubias (orange heads are fiestier to work with).

A few things. First, B. dubia are known to be cannibalistic under certain circumstances (stress, lack of food, etc.). That being said, they obviously have mandibles capable of biting through tough exoskeletons. I wouldn't worry about a B. dubia attacking any tarantula, but if the tarantula is molting? Big difference. This is easily resolved by simply crushing their heads. They continue to walk around and scurry for days with a crushed head, likely only finally dying from dehydration. Secondly, crushing their heads immediately gets rid of their desire to burrow. I'm not sure why this is, but I've never seen a dubia burrow after having a crushed head. Third and finally, I wouldn't leave any feeder in with a tarantula for a long period of time without first crushing the head. Crickets, roaches, mealworms - they've all got mandibles that are capable of killing a molting tarantula.

Either roach makes for a great feeder, so use what you like. But get in the habit of crushing the head first regardless of what you do.

 

[u bada]

thanks for the feedback! (oh they pun) Oh yeah, I know about the crush head thing... just havn't been doing it as I hate to waste what for me is a fairly pricey feeder option that i could otherwise keep alive for a long time. (don't have that many t's to just feed whenever) On other hand i know a safe t is better, just been pretty good so far at getting food out if they don't eat it. I'm thinking of starting a colony of dubias, but if they can just as well munch into exoskeleton not sure if it makes a difference then if dubias or breeding a colony of orange heads with that as a concern, eh? I'm not wanting to do infesting species at the moment so...

 

[EulersK]

thanks for the feedback! (oh they pun) Oh yeah, I know about the crush head thing... just havn't been doing it as I hate to waste what for me is a fairly pricey feeder option that i could otherwise keep alive for a long time. (don't have that many t's to just feed whenever) On other hand i know a safe t is better, just been pretty good so far at getting food out if they don't eat it. I'm thinking of starting a colony of dubias, but if they can just as well munch into exoskeleton not sure if it makes a difference then if dubias or breeding a colony of orange heads with that as a concern, eh? I'm not wanting to do infesting species at the moment so...

Dubia shouldn't be that expensive What are you paying? It's always an option to buy online in bulk and just keep them alive while you feed them off. That's what I did when I first started.

By the way, if you want to see if your tarantula is hungry, then just tickle it! Not kidding. Get a long blade of dried grass and "tickle" the ground right in front of them to simulate prey. If they attack it, then they're hungry and ready to eat. I do this with tarantulas that I suspect are in premolt but can't tell for sure.

 

[u bada]

By the way, if you want to see if your tarantula is hungry, then just tickle it! Not kidding. Get a long blade of dried grass and "tickle" the ground right in front of them to simulate prey. If they attack it, then they're hungry and ready to eat. I do this with tarantulas that I suspect are in premolt but can't tell for sure.

I know, it's a great idea! only issue is sometimes, especially the juvies, they look a little scared when i do that and run off, and then of course if in fact hungry come right back. but i usually use a stick, a blade of glass could work much better for sure.

Depending on the store and size, they can be 30-55cents each. I could order online but shipping sorta throws off the cost, right? i mean 2 day shipping would but cheaper shipping but safe given if temps are reasonable? Plus some of mine still before crix (argh. particularly the avics)) so i could get all these dubias and I guess i could sit with them for a year and eventually I'm sure they'd be a colony...

oh i should ask, how exactly do you crush roach heads? (I know it's been mentioned on other threads just asking for my convenience and lurkers ;P)

 

[EulersK]

but i usually use a stick, a blade of glass could work much better for sure.

Yeah, I can see how a stick would scare them. Definitely try the blade of grass. Plus, they can scurry up a stick - no such risk with a blade of grass.

oh i should ask, how exactly do you crush roach heads?

Forceps/tweezers, depending on the size. You can cut them off as well, which I do for my particularly picky eaters. Crushing the heads don't change their behavior at all other than quelling their desire to burrow. Cutting off their heads just makes them kick for a few hours (but never walking away) before dying.

 

[mconnachan]

so i could get all these dubias and I guess i could sit with them for a year and eventually I'm sure they'd be a colony...

If you kept a colony for a year without feeding any off, you could start your own feeder business, no joke, I've even given it some thought as a side line to earn extra cash. Honestly you could have a colony established within 4-6 weeks no problem, mines have been on the go for near on 4 years now, without having to bring in new blood, which you really should do from time to time. that is one thing I'll have to address to be fair. I hope you go far a colony of dubias they end up paying for themselves ten times over.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

By the way, if you want to see if your tarantula is hungry, then just tickle it! Not kidding. Get a long blade of dried grass and "tickle" the ground right in front of them to simulate prey.

Good way to coax some of the more reclusive ones out of hiding if the need arises too.

but i usually use a stick, a blade of glass could work much better for sure.

I use a really long/thin cable tie as it has the same effect but holds its shape but cutting a long/thin strip of paper will work too.

 

[Randomjoe]

You could try hissers. When I throw a hisser in with my T's it usually wonders around a bit instead of trying to burrow.

 

[Randomjoe]

Not sure what temps you'll keep them if you want to start a colony, but at 80f - 85f orange heads should out breed dubia. Both should breed faster than you'll need though once the colony is going good.

 

[Jones0911]

You should try red runners ( Blatta Lateralis) they never hide and they're always moving and they don't burrow can't go wrong!!

 

[Stugy]

You should try red runners ( Blatta Lateralis) they never hide and they're always moving and they don't burrow can't go wrong!!

Plus most bloodlines don't climb (apparently some do) and they can't fly. Great feeders. Just got my starter colony today and my scorpions love them. Now I have my infinite food source so now I gotta decide whether I should expand the scorpions or get my first T. ugh the choices!

 

[u bada]

Thanks for all the input. I read a thread here discussing lateralis vs dubia or something to that effect, and some horrible news about how lateralis are infesting SoCal (i'm in SoCal), and how invasive they are in general... so I'd be a little scared. Other than that they're the perfect size for the herps, the smaller t's I have... no roach is perfect I guess.

Hissers may be too big in general, I do wonder about how t's take to the nymphs...

Between the orange heads and dubias, the orange heads seem to be more active in general... but just keeping both in different shoe boxes to keep them and we'll see where I'm at in a year LOL Still gotta try the whole squeezing head bit so if the dubias end up moving a lot that way and not burying as is claimed, probably just better to stick to dubias as they are most readily available.

If I can get my hands on panchlora nivea colony, that sounds like the perfect one for me (spacewise) and the smaller herps and t's (especially the arboreals) as they supposedly are smaller and stay active and don't bury themselves.

 

[Randomjoe]

Hisser nymphs start out about as small as dubia nymphs. Adult Panchlora nivea can also climb glass and smooth plastic and can fly. If you like the size of lateralis you could look into Parcoblatta they can't infest your house and only adults can climb.