Red eyed feeder cricket

[bugmankeith]

Not too long ago I posted about finding a white eyed feeder cricket years ago, it was blind due to this. Ever since I have been trying to find another like it in hopes mabye a pair can be bred and I can create a new line of feeders. no luck though.

Well, today I did not find one with white eyes, but red! I have never heard or seen any like it in my life, and ive seen A LOT of feeder crickets in my lifetime! I know american cockroaches have been bred to have white eyes, and we all know genetics with fruit fly eye color many colors now from laboratories. So is is possible all insects have potential for random mutations in body and eye color? The body is normal color just the eyes arent, if it sheds it will literally be white with red eyes for a while like an albino! Anyway, i'm keeping it safe as a pet, but I was wondering if its bred do you think any offspring will have the red eyes or it's so rare chances are they will not?

I'll post a photo tomorrow.

 

[bugmankeith]

Here are the photos as promised.

 

[spiderengineer]

wouldn't this be sign of an albino lack of pigmentation and the general look of it screams albino.

 

[bugmankeith]

wouldn't this be sign of an albino lack of pigmentation and the general look of it screams albino.

It's slightly lighter than normal, but it still has various body pigments, and flies have red eyes but are not albino so I'm not sure what red eyes mean for insects, its abnormal, but I can't call it albino yet. I have no idea who to contact to ask about it.

 

[Tenodera]

That's wild. Do you know if it can see? Make sure to take special care since it looks a bit beat up already, and you could develop a breed like Orin's black ones.

 

[bugmankeith]

It appears it can somewhat see but its kind of clumsy.

 

[jdl]

Whether the offspring will have red eyes will depend on if the gene is dominant or recessive. I don't know of any dominant albino forms, just recessive. If this is the case, all the offspring will be normal carrying the gene for red eyes and the other traits. If this is the case, you will have to breed the offspring together and back to the parent and hopefully the f2 generation will display the abnormality. With insects it is not always simply recessive or dominant. I have heard with the albino millipedes, the trait just shows up with no way to determine that a percentage of the offspring will be showing the albino trait. It sounds like an interesting project. Good luck.

 

[bugmankeith]

Whether the offspring will have red eyes will depend on if the gene is dominant or recessive. I don't know of any dominant albino forms, just recessive. If this is the case, all the offspring will be normal carrying the gene for red eyes and the other traits. If this is the case, you will have to breed the offspring together and back to the parent and hopefully the f2 generation will display the abnormality. With insects it is not always simply recessive or dominant. I have heard with the albino millipedes, the trait just shows up with no way to determine that a percentage of the offspring will be showing the albino trait. It sounds like an interesting project. Good luck.

There are 2 issues.
If female, she will only mate once. Usually crickets die before their offspring mature so near impossible to mate parent with offspring. What about mating offspring with eachother?

 

[Embers To Ashes]

Somebody told me a while ago that insects can't be albino. I don't know if that is true or not, but this cricket does look a lot lighter than normal. As for the markings, all albino animals have normal markings, but in a lighter or more red color. Take albino snakes for instance. To me, crickets are brown with black or dark brown blotches. These markings are light brown, leading me to beleive that if insects can be albino. than this cricket is. ALthough, it may just be pale from a resent molt.

 

[Tenodera]

Mating offspring with each other should be fine, as they would all presumably be heterozygous and (if it's recessive) you'd have a fourth of te offspring be double recessive and red-eyed. Using a male from a different source may help assure that, in case this one is too closely related to its companions.

 

[bugmankeith]

Somebody told me a while ago that insects can't be albino. I don't know if that is true or not, but this cricket does look a lot lighter than normal. As for the markings, all albino animals have normal markings, but in a lighter or more red color. Take albino snakes for instance. To me, crickets are brown with black or dark brown blotches. These markings are light brown, leading me to beleive that if insects can be albino. than this cricket is. ALthough, it may just be pale from a resent molt.

This did not molt recently, so the coloring is true. In any case this proves insects are capable of having color mutations, someone needs to update their info lol.

---------- Post added 12-30-2012 at 11:28 PM ----------

Mating offspring with each other should be fine, as they would all presumably be heterozygous and (if it's recessive) you'd have a fourth of te offspring be double recessive and red-eyed. Using a male from a different source may help assure that, in case this one is too closely related to its companions.

Good idea, plenty of places I can get a unrelated cricket as the other parent.

 

[jdl]

Yeah, you are correct with not being able to breed mom back to offspring, I am thinking of snake genetics. Dr. Breene from the ATS used to say that it is impossible to have albino inverts, but they are breeding millipedes and a few other insects that appear albino, so maybe there are other factors involved, or maybe they are just displaying albino traits without actually being albino. Maybe you will be the person that proves albinism can exist in inverts LOL.

 

[Tenodera]

The eyes are red/pink in albino mammals because of the blood vessels in the retina being visible. Insects don't have red hemolymph, so abnormal red eyes aren't associated with albinism.

I don't know my herps so well; are the markings on albino snakes and frogs still present because of structural differences in the skin, blood visibility, some pigment being produced, or a different reason?

 

[bugmankeith]

Bad news, I checked on the cricket yesterday and found it dead, dark brown like it was rotting. I have no idea how it died, perhaps it was the cricket virus, there were many dead crickets it probably ate and got infected. At least I was lucky enough to give it a few good last days and share this amazing find! I will continue to look for more in hopes of breeding them.

 

[Aviara]

I've always been told (but don't have any scientific evidence) that in reptiles albinos lack black pigmentation, whereas in order to produce a true pure-white animal (ex. a Blizzard morph corn, leucistic morphs, etc. etc.) you need to wipe out the red pigments too. I personally own a leucistic Texas Ratsnake, and not only does he have no red marks, he has no black at all either. He is a completely white snake without any marks whatsoever, with blue eyes (ie. no eye pigmentation). I'm pretty sure the albino eyes in reptiles are not due to blood vessels, or else this snake's eyes would appear red. In snake breeding, you can also remove the red pigmentation and keep only black (ex. the "anery" color in Corn snakes). The genetics may be different in mammals, however albino tigers do retain faint orange stripes, for example. Many of the "albino" mammals that appear to lose all coloration don't have many defining black markings in the first place (horses, squirrels, whitetail deer, etc.) I don't know how this translates to invertebrates, since the genetics are so wildly different.

 

[Necromion]

Many years ago (god i feel old now) I came a cross a couple of european mantis' that were all relativly normal, with one excption. They were bright neon pink in over all body color, the wings were a snow white, and their eyes were white as well. at the time I figured they were albino, so i caught them and kept them. One died on its maturing molt as it was eaten by crix; and the other lived a long and happy life and when she died I added her to my collection. Sadly I dont have the specimen any more as I would post a picture if i did, but i have seen pictures of similar specimens on google.

I know its slightly off topic, but I thought I would mention it as the topic of color morphs and insects were being discussed.

 

[bugmankeith]

Many years ago (god i feel old now) I came a cross a couple of european mantis' that were all relativly normal, with one excption. They were bright neon pink in over all body color, the wings were a snow white, and their eyes were white as well. at the time I figured they were albino, so i caught them and kept them. One died on its maturing molt as it was eaten by crix; and the other lived a long and happy life and when she died I added her to my collection. Sadly I dont have the specimen any more as I would post a picture if i did, but i have seen pictures of similar specimens on google.

I know its slightly off topic, but I thought I would mention it as the topic of color morphs and insects were being discussed.

That's really cool!

 

[Tenodera]

A thorough inspection of bugguide turned up plenty of pale M. religiosa and also some green ones with neon pink. The closest I could find to your description is this subadult: http://bugguide.net/node/view/70973/bgimage.
I wonder what determines that species' coloration because there sure are a lot of morphs.

 

[Digby Rigby]

leucistic

Leucistic is not the same as albino. An easy way to tell leucistic is the reptiles are pure white but the eyes are pigmented. They can be black or blue for instance, but the body is always pure solid white. Albinism in reptiles is different as far as looks go and in fact occur two ways. They can lack black pigmentation and the reverse is lack of yellow and red sort of like axanthic.

I've always been told (but don't have any scientific evidence) that in reptiles albinos lack black pigmentation, whereas in order to produce a true pure-white animal (ex. a Blizzard morph corn, leucistic morphs, etc. etc.) you need to wipe out the red pigments too. I personally own a leucistic Texas Ratsnake, and not only does he have no red marks, he has no black at all either. He is a completely white snake without any marks whatsoever, with blue eyes (ie. no eye pigmentation). I'm pretty sure the albino eyes in reptiles are not due to blood vessels, or else this snake's eyes would appear red. In snake breeding, you can also remove the red pigmentation and keep only black (ex. the "anery" color in Corn snakes). The genetics may be different in mammals, however albino tigers do retain faint orange stripes, for example. Many of the "albino" mammals that appear to lose all coloration don't have many defining black markings in the first place (horses, squirrels, whitetail deer, etc.) I don't know how this translates to invertebrates, since the genetics are so wildly different.

 

[Necromion]

that is very close to it Tenodera. I do agree with you, I have always been curious to what causes the different colors. Though I may be able to shed some light, the first one I found as a juvie, and the second one came out of a seemingly normal egg case I found. She was amoung one of the babies I had decided to save. I didnt do anything special infact, when she was just an ity bitty and for a decent part of her juvinile life span. She looked like just another regular Brown M. religiosa, and then she started to slowly turn pink with each molt. Ive always thought genetics, but I never got a chance to breed her and find out.