Question + Centipede ID Request

[BugTrainerGuy]

Hello, I am new to "the hobby". I always liked bugs; but I never thought much of them. Until I learned that you can earn a centipede's trust. Ever since then, I have been free-handling these beautiful creatures. They Rock!

I have some wild caught specimens that I would like to have Identified by someone with superior knowledge. Through the eyes of a novice; they appear to be 2 different species of centipede.

I am 95% positive that one species is S. subspinipes(last 2 pictures). The other (first 3 pictures) I have no clue what it is. Note that the unidentified specimen is a bit longer than what I assume is S. subspinipes. These were caught on the island of oahu.

Also; I recently learned that S. Subspinipes Subspinipes is now simply refered to as: S. Subspinipes. What does that mean for Mutilans? Is Mutilans its own species or still a subspecies?

Please feel free to correct me if I made any mistakes; as I am new. Ergo; please be nice or I will surgically dissect you and anything you have to "say".

 

[chanda]

Your long, skinny unidentified centipede (red head, well over the 21 pairs of legs that a Scolopendra species has) is a soil centipede (Geophilomorpha). In Hawaii, it's going to be a Mecistocephalus species - probably Mecistocephalus maxillaris.

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/4XGNkM or this one: https://inaturalist.ca/taxa/434536-Mecistocephalus

The others appear to be juvenile Scolopendra subspinipes. (The dark head and bluish legs are typical of juveniles, then change color as the centipedes grow.)

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/6442sv or this one: https://flic.kr/p/9FS9Em

 

[moricollins]

Hello, I am new to "the hobby" ...

Please feel free to correct me if I made any mistakes; as I am new. Ergo; please be nice or I will surgically dissect you and anything you have to "say".

Wow, this takes entitlement to a whole new level. "I'm new, be nice to me or else. "

Handling centipedes is a recipe for disaster. Scolopendra bites are no joke.
And unless I'm completely mistaken, the concept of "gaining their trust" is a falsehood, their "brain" isn't capable of such a thing.

Search results for Scolopendra bites
https://arachnoboards.com/search/89461/?q=Scolopendra&t=post&c[nodes][0]=16&c[nodes][1]=17&o=date

Some specific threads to read

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/scolopendra-hardwickei.199400/post-1927044

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/scolopendra-subspinipes.254/post-1927007

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Your long, skinny unidentified centipede (red head, well over the 21 pairs of legs that a Scolopendra species has) is a soil centipede (Geophilomorpha). In Hawaii, it's going to be a Mecistocephalus species - probably Mecistocephalus maxillaris.

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/4XGNkM or this one: https://inaturalist.ca/taxa/434536-Mecistocephalus

The others appear to be juvenile Scolopendra subspinipes. (The dark head and bluish legs are typical of juveniles, then change color as the centipedes grow.)

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/6442sv or this one: https://flic.kr/p/9FS9Em

Thank you for your response.

I was having difficulties finding local information on native/introduced species in my area. I do try my best to find answers on my own before asking on Forums/Boards. Except this time Google wasn't being so helpful.

I would like to say that I appreciate the time and effort you took to respond. Thank you.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Wow, this takes entitlement to a whole new level. "I'm new, be nice to me or else. "

Handling centipedes is a recipe for disaster. Scolopendra bites are no joke.
And unless I'm completely mistaken, the concept of "gaining their trust" is a falsehood, their "brain" isn't capable of such a thing.

Search results for Scolopendra bites
https://arachnoboards.com/search/89461/?q=Scolopendra&t=post&c[nodes][0]=16&c[nodes][1]=17&o=date

Some specific threads to read

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/scolopendra-hardwickei.199400/post-1927044

https://arachnoboards.com/threads/scolopendra-subspinipes.254/post-1927007

Excuse me; but we are all entitled to respect from others; or did your parents exclude that lesson?

As far as bites go. I have been envenomated MULTIPLE times. If I were a lesser man, no doubt there would be severe pain. Ergo, this is not the case. (I live in an area were centipedes are notoriously rampant; one could almost say it is almost part of local culture to have been envenomated at least once.)

Honestly I do not see the point of your response; as you provide nothing constructive to "say". You do not even address the topic at hand.

Yes, you are poorly mistaken. It is possible to gain a centipede's "trust". Are you not familiar with socialization? There are many documented cases of successful socialization with centipedes.

Thank you for your references. I would leave several of my own; but seeing as you are an over competent individual; you should not have trouble doing your own research.

Just to be clear: Are you the type that enjoys living in fear and ignorance?

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Your long, skinny unidentified centipede (red head, well over the 21 pairs of legs that a Scolopendra species has) is a soil centipede (Geophilomorpha). In Hawaii, it's going to be a Mecistocephalus species - probably Mecistocephalus maxillaris.

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/4XGNkM or this one: https://inaturalist.ca/taxa/434536-Mecistocephalus

The others appear to be juvenile Scolopendra subspinipes. (The dark head and bluish legs are typical of juveniles, then change color as the centipedes grow.)

Compare to this one: https://flic.kr/p/6442sv or this one: https://flic.kr/p/9FS9Em

I apologize for the double reply; but is there another site or resource you could recommend? That way, I do not have to ask questions that most likely have been answered hundreds of times already.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Wow. This is why I stay away from boards. Its full of keyboard wizards that know everything. I hope it gets better from here or I might just dip.

 

[moricollins]

Excuse me; but we are all entitled to respect from others; or did your parents exclude that lesson?

As far as bites go. I have been envenomated MULTIPLE times. If I were a lesser man, no doubt there would be severe pain. Ergo, this is not the case. (I live in an area were centipedes are notoriously rampant; one could almost say it is almost part of local culture to have been envenomated at least once.)

Honestly I do not see the point of your response; as you provide nothing constructive to "say". You do not even address the topic at hand.

Yes, you are poorly mistaken. It is possible to gain a centipede's "trust". Are you not familiar with socialization? There are many documented cases of successful socialization with centipedes.

Thank you for your references. I would leave several of my own; but seeing as you are an over competent individual; you should not have trouble doing your own research.

Just to be clear: Are you the type that enjoys living in fear and ignorance?

Care to point out what I said that was disrespectful?

Also, can you share these documented cases where a centipede showed the level of intelligence to "trust" a human being?

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Care to point out what I said that was disrespectful?

Also, can you share these documented cases where a centipede showed the level of intelligence to "trust" a human being?

Your entire reply was condescending. How else should I take it?

Sure no problem. I am not sure exactly what your expectations on trust are, but I have witnessed centipedes exhibiting a "trust-like" value.

However Im sure you will come up with an insightful claim to "disprove" what you saw..

Give me a minute.

 

[chanda]

I apologize for the double reply; but is there another site or resource you could recommend? That way, I do not have to ask questions that most likely have been answered hundreds of times already.

Arachnoboards is the best site that I know of for any questions - or just sharing your experiences. Use the search function if you want to peruse old threads before starting a new one. If there are already existing threads on the topic, you may be able to answer your questions just from reading them - but if not (or if you want further information or dialogue) you can either add to the old thread or start a new one.

In my experience, this is generally a very helpful, supportive, and welcoming community. There may be some issues on which everyone does not see eye-to-eye (such as the handling of centipedes, tarantulas, or other invertebrates) and threads pertaining to controversial topics can get a little heated - but people usually treat one another with courtesy and respect - particularly if they are also treated that way.

You are likely to get a better response from the other users if you don't start off being defensive/antagonistic. Your remark: "please be nice or I will surgically dissect you and anything you have to "say" is a bit off-putting because you're essentially threatening people: "Be nice to me - or else!" People here want to help you - but they aren't going to coddle you or just tell you what you want to hear. Sometimes they may disagree with you or with your husbandry or practices, and they aren't going to be shy about telling you so. In addition to helping you they are also looking out for the best interests of your invertebrates. If you genuinely want help or advice - not just a bunch of people who will tell you how cool you are or that you are doing everything perfectly - then you need to be prepared for some blunt replies where people will point out things that they disagree with or think should be done differently. They aren't trying to be mean - they're just trying to help.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

This channel has amazing content.

Perhaps I used the wrong term, but to me, the animals involved do not seem to exhibit any threatend behavior. To me, they appear to be comfortable and trusting of their handlers.

How do I end this thread? I found what I needed. Thank you all.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Arachnoboards is the best site that I know of for any questions - or just sharing your experiences. Use the search function if you want to peruse old threads before starting a new one. If there are already existing threads on the topic, you may be able to answer your questions just from reading them - but if not (or if you want further information or dialogue) you can either add to the old thread or start a new one.

In my experience, this is generally a very helpful, supportive, and welcoming community. There may be some issues on which everyone does not see eye-to-eye (such as the handling of centipedes, tarantulas, or other invertebrates) and threads pertaining to controversial topics can get a little heated - but people usually treat one another with courtesy and respect - particularly if they are also treated that way.

You are likely to get a better response from the other users if you don't start off being defensive/antagonistic. Your remark: "please be nice or I will surgically dissect you and anything you have to "say" is a bit off-putting because you're essentially threatening people: "Be nice to me - or else!" People here want to help you - but they aren't going to coddle you or just tell you what you want to hear. Sometimes they may disagree with you or with your husbandry or practices, and they aren't going to be shy about telling you so. In addition to helping you they are also looking out for the best interests of your invertebrates. If you genuinely want help or advice - not just a bunch of people who will tell you how cool you are or that you are doing everything perfectly - then you need to be prepared for some blunt replies where people will point out things that they disagree with or think should be done differently. They aren't trying to be mean - they're just trying to help.

Thank you again for your words, I will utilize that search function before asking same old same olds.

I see where I may have been a bit off-putting. I simply wanted to introduce myself as well as let it be know that I do not take kindly to condescending comments. I can assure you I do not plan to start every thread like that. It was more of an introductory statement if you will.

Well, I am not here for approval(obviously) or popularity. I will try to carefully construct my sentences to avoid any confusion. Thank you for the advice.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

Well?

 

[moricollins]

Your entire reply was condescending. How else should I take it?

Sure no problem. I am not sure exactly what your expectations on trust are, but I have witnessed centipedes exhibiting a "trust-like" value.

However Im sure you will come up with an insightful claim to "disprove" what you saw..

Give me a minute.

Firstly, I'm honored that you want my attention enough to send me a PM asking for more comments.

My reply was not condescending whatsoever, you may perceive it that way but that's your choice.

I pointed out the risk associated with handling a centipede. If you want to assume that risk, go for it. It's not a risk I'd take for myself.

I haven't watched the YouTube videos, however I'm not likely to be swayed by a a couple of random videos. I'm a prove it in writing, scientific literature kind of guy.

 

[BugTrainerGuy]

What can I say? I enjoy a good scrap.

So, you do not practice scientific observation?
You rely on dogma?

You can start by addressing the topics at hand rather than inserting your opinions were you see fit. That is how things escalate. Do you lack common sense?

By the way there are hundreds of videos with a multitude of species/subspecies. Please do not allow yourself be ignorant.

 

[chanda]

By the way there are hundreds of videos with a multitude of species/subspecies. Please do not allow yourself be ignorant.

There are lots of videos of people handling centipedes and not getting envenomated. This does not prove that the centipedes have been "trained" or "socialized" or that they have learned to trust their handler.

There are two primary purposes for which centipedes use their venom: to subdue prey or in self-defense. If they do not identify the handler as either food or a threat, they have no reason to envenomate them - but that doesn't mean that they have learned to identify and trust their handler. It could just as easily be argued that the handler has learned how to handle the centipede confidently and gently, in such a way that the centipede does not feel threatened.

As evidence of this, allow me to share a video of a tarantula hawk wasp eating out of my hand:

Was she trained to let me handle her? Did she trust me not to do anything that might harm her? Of course not! This was the first time I "handled" her (really, just let her walk on me and eat) so there was no possibility that she had been socialized not to sting. She just didn't have any reason to do so, because I was not behaving in a way that would be perceived as a threat - and I was clearly not prey. I have also handled wild-caught centipedes (Scolopendra polymorpha) - mostly while in the process of catching them. Again, they were not trained or socialized - but I was not behaving in a threatening way, so they had no reason to bite me. My hand was just a strange and different obstacle to climb on, en route from the ground to the catch cup.

Invertebrates are capable of some limited learning. There are scientific studies where bees have been trained to perform various "tricks" in order to access food rewards. Captive spiders can acquire a feeding response where they learn to associate certain cues - such as a cage door being opened - with food. They will then modify their natural behavior (to retreat when the enclosure is opened) and approach the opening in anticipation of a juicy cricket or cockroach being dropped in. This is simple, reward-based conditioning, though. It does not mean that they have learned to recognize or trust their owner - and they will react the same way, no matter who is opening the cage. The same is true of handling. It is unlikely that they can differentiate between people - and even a simple thing like wearing a different lotion or using a different soap or laundry detergent will make you taste or smell different to your centipede.

I am not going to tell you that you should not handle. That is not my place. You are aware that they can "bite" and that the bite can be extremely painful. I hope you are also aware that the venom load (and pain level) increases dramatically with larger centipedes. While the juvenile S. subspinipes you posted for identification could give you a somewhat painful bite, it would not be nearly as bad as what you could get from a mature adult specimen! A friend-of-a-friend got tagged by his subspinipes while feeding it. He foolishly tried to hand-feed it a pinky mouse, failing to consider that - to something with the poor visual acuity of a centipede - his fingers would be virtually indistinguishable from the pinky mouse, particularly when said fingers also smelled like mouse. He said it was the worst pain he had ever experienced - even worse than a black widow bite that had landed him in the hospital for a few days. He said the centipede bite felt like someone was slamming his hand in the car door, over and over and over again.

In addition to the risk to yourself, there is also risk to the animal. If you get tagged, you might reflexively jerk your hand, flinging the centipede across the room. The centipede might bolt or drop off your hand to the floor, injuring itself or getting away from you and disappearing into a heating vent, under a bookcase, or out the door, putting both itself and any roommates, family members, or other household pets at risk.

You should be aware that even for the most experienced handler, things can (and do) go wrong. The videos of people casually handling their centipedes are posted by those people - and will reflect a certain bias. The majority of people promoting centipede handling on their YouTube channels may post only the successful handling videos - but not the ones where the centipede ran up their arm, down their shirt, and ended up under a bookcase on the other side of the room, or the ones where they got tagged and maybe reacted to the sudden pain with less than stoic machismo. That leads to a wealth of successful handling videos - without the counterbalancing videos of less successful attempts.

At the end of the day, whether you handle or not is your choice - but in a forum like this one, where people frequently ask for advice and share their own experiences and recommendations, you shouldn't be surprised (or offended) when they weigh in on the issue.

 

[moricollins]

What can I say? I enjoy a good scrap.

So, you do not practice scientific observation?
You rely on dogma?

You can start by addressing the topics at hand rather than inserting your opinions were you see fit. That is how things escalate. Do you lack common sense?

By the way there are hundreds of videos with a multitude of species/subspecies. Please do not allow yourself be ignorant.

It's ironic, you accuse me of being disrespectful, yet this post was more disrespectful than my post. Perhaps it's just easy to read disrespect into other people's writing ... ;-)

Even hundreds of random videos don't prove anything to me. As @chanda has pointed out, someone handling a centipede and not being bitten doesn't mean the centipede trusts the person. You assign an anthropomorphic trait where one doesn't necessarily exist.