Question about Cyriopagopus/Omothymus sp Hati hati

[Xerinex]

1. Are they fast grower?
2. Are they literally a pet hole like other fossorial cyriopagopus sp?
I only have experience of rearing Fossorial Cyriopagopus such as lividum and albostriatus and was thinking of getting a hati hati

 

[Tarantuland]

Mine are still small, but they do seem to be fast growing. One has gone from 1/2” to an inch in a couple months. From what I’ve read they might become more visible when they get larger, but mine are usually burrowed. The adults are gorgeous tho

 

[spideyspinneret78]

They're moderately fast growing. Mine went from 0.75in to about 2.5 inches in about a year's time. They're pet holes when they're small but come out more as they start putting on some size. When mine was very small, I didn't see her for months at a time, but crickets were disappearing! Now that she's starting to put on a little more size she's out almost every night.

 

[l4nsky]

I've never raised a sling of this species, but I do have a subadult female and I'll usually see her out at night, perched on her corkbark.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

The correct label for this species for the time being would be Ornithoctoninae sp. "Hati Hati" seeing as it's still an undescribed species from the Ornithoctoninae subfamily.

I'll preface the following answers by saying that I haven't raised this species specifically but I have raised other arboreal Ornithoctoninae (specifically species from Lampropelma/Omothymus/Phormingochilus) so they should still be relevant.

1. Are they fast grower?

Arboreal Ornithoctoninae tend to have pretty decent growth rates, although they don't grow as fast as Psalmopoeinae/Pokies IME.

2. Are they literally a pet hole like other fossorial cyriopagopus sp?

They're arboreal but you can expect them to burrow like other arboreal Ornithoctoninae, especially as slings. Younger specimens tend to be more reclusive but they do get bolder as they put on size, you're most likely to spot them out early morning or in the evening (although it's gone 4 in the afternoon here and my O. schioedtei female is perched on the front of her cork bark as I type this).

 

[boina]

I started reading this thread and started to be really confused until I came to Gryms post...

No, they are not really fossorial, although they may burrow, they are more or less arboreal. Mine is in a semi-arboreal setup with more substrate than I'd usually use for an arbereal and it has made a shallow burrow, but that burrow is extended upward behind the cork bark and it sometimes hangs out on the cork. I would never give a hati hati a purely fossorial setup.

So, no, they aren't pet holes, but they may be pet barks. They grow reasonably quickly and you won't see much of them until they are at the large juvenile/adult stage. I still don't see a lot of mine (fully adult), but then I don't see much of any of my Ornithoctoninae.

Btw., large is relative - hati hati is a smaller species. My adult has no more than an estimated legspan of 5".

@The Grym Reaper - you actually see your O. schioedtei? I'm so jealous. I haven't seen mine in years - honestly. I occasionally look behind her bark to see if she's still alive (she is, she has molted recently), and occasional roaches get eaten, but she really is never out when I'm around . Same goes for my Phormingochilus carpenteri. I've given completely up on Ornitocthoninae.

 

[Liquifin]

O. or H. sp. Hati Hati are quite decent growers, in 1.5 years, mines was a mature female. They don't grow that large as I thought, so expect most to be at 4''-5'' for max size. At 4'' they are sexually mature although I thought that was small at first. But then my 4'' female made a phantom egg sac...

Yep, this is a phantom egg sac as I never bred her since I thought she was too small. But then she proved me wrong by making an infertile egg sac. So after her next molt, I'll probably consider looking for a male.

 

[l4nsky]

I've given completely up on Ornitocthoninae.

No, don't give up lol. Can you share a picture of their enclosures with me, whether here or in a DM? I see almost all of my adults every night and I believe it strongly has to do with how secure they feel in their enclosures.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

@The Grym Reaper - you actually see your O. schioedtei? I'm so jealous. I haven't seen mine in years - honestly. I occasionally look behind her bark to see if she's still alive (she is, she has molted recently), and occasional roaches get eaten, but she really is never out when I'm around . Same goes for my Phormingochilus carpenteri. I've given completely up on Ornitocthoninae.

Mine was like that up until recently, after rehousing her she basically hid for 2 entire moult cycles (the only time I saw her out was a couple of days before her last moult and the only way I could tell she was alive prior to that was that roaches would disappear and poop would appear on the enclosure walls/lid in their stead), since her last moult I've spotted her out more often though (I just checked and she's in exactly the same spot she was when I posted 6hrs ago lol). My AF L. nigerrimum is uber reclusive so I rarely see her out (although I mainly put that down to her hide being a cork tube, I've just redone her enclosure so that it's more in line with the rest of my non-Avic arboreal setups so we'll see if that encourages her to come out more as my male was never that reclusive).

 

[cold blood]

No, they are not really fossorial, although they may burrow, they are more or less arboreal. Mine is in a semi-arboreal setup with more substrate than I'd usually use for an arbereal and it has made a shallow burrow, but that burrow is extended upward behind the cork bark and it sometimes hangs out on the cork. I would never give a hati hati a purely fossorial setup.

I have mine set up just like described above.....sometimes I see them, sometimes I don't. I probably see the schioedtei a little bit more, but she's a full size adult, my hati hati isn't yet...but the species do mirror one another quite a bit.

I will say that in captivity, they can be pet holes...when mine do disappear, its under ground...but they are pretty aggressive eaters and I see mine out hunting at night a fair amount.

schioedtei munching a dubia

• cold blood
• Feb 13, 2019
• 1
• feeding malaysian earthtiger tarantula omothymus omothymus schioedtei schioedtei

 

[boina]

@l4nsky Ok, this is the enclosure of the Phormingochilus, as the name says, but the others are all very similar

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Ok, this is the enclosure of the Phormingochilus, as the name says, but the others are all very similar

I only give mine the one hide but like to chuck some plant cover around it, here's a pic of the new setup I did for the L. nigerrimum but all of my non-Avic arboreal setups are basically arranged the same way.

 

[l4nsky]

@l4nsky Ok, this is the enclosure of the Phormingochilus, as the name says, but the others are all very similar

View attachment 396954

Try adding more substrate, sloping up to the back, and embedding the cork bark all the way to the bottom. Try to get about 7-8" in the back. It's hard to tell in the picture how deep the substrate is in the back, but it looks to be about 4". When it's that shallow, an adult can't make a full burrow to feel secure, and has to use dirt curtains. IME, they're more reclusive and skittish in these situations, and paradoxically, to see them more often, they need to be setup so that you might potentially never see them.

Here's one of my Phormingochilus sp. Sabah Blue enclosures:

She has a corkbark round as a hide, buried all the way to the bottom of the enclosure, and a minimum of 6" of substrate in the back. I see her every night.

Here's the enclosure that my 0.1 O. sp Hati Hati resides in:

She has a cork bark flat as a hide, buried to the bottom of the enclosure and about 6" of substrate in the back. I consistently see her perched out on her corkbark at night, or her legs curling around the edge of the cork.

Finally, here's an enclosure housing one of my female Phormingochilus sp Akcaya:

Like my other Ornithoctoninae sp, she has a corkbark piece (in this case a round) buried in a minimum of 6" of substrate in the back. This girl is a little bit shyer then my others, and I'll usually only see her front legs and part of her carapace sticking out of the hide, but I do see her pretty consistently.

Try and give your Ornithoctoninae sp the ability to make a full, deep burrow in a moist substrate and see what happens when they get settled in . There's no guarantee, but it works consistently for me.

 

[boina]

@l4nsky - Well, I measured and it's about 5" of substrate what I have in there. I can add more. Another reason why I don't see them may be that I tend to feed them up quickly after a molt. Just this morninng my hati hati was actually out, freshly molted, and in hunting position on her log, looking thin and fresh. But thanks for the advice, I'll definitely try that (I need to rehouse half a dozen other spiders first, though - everyone seems to have molted in the last few weeks).

@The Grym Reaper - I had plants in there originally, but I've taken them out of my asian arboreal enclosures since some spiders (e.g. P. ornata) seemed to be actively avoiding them and only sitting in the places where there weren't any plants. Maybe I'll add one plant to the side again.

 

[l4nsky]

Well, I measured and it's about 5" of substrate what I have in there. I can add more. Another reason why I don't see them may be that I tend to feed them up quickly after a molt. Just this morninng my hati hati was actually out, freshly molted, and in hunting position on her log, looking thin and fresh. But thanks for the advice, I'll definitely try that.

I'll be genuinly curious if your results match mine (I might ask in a few weeks). With my arboreal Ornithoctoninae, I haven't really noticed a correlation between a well fed tarantula and lack of visibility (but I've definently noticed it with the obligate fossorials!).

Something I forgot to mention is to make sure to really pile the substrate behind the flat or in the tube. Add a starter burrow in the round or a cavity behind the flat so that the T can just fit in it. They'll find it and excavate a tight burrow that is completely lined with webbing.

Here's the burrow that the 6.25", 0.1 P. sp Akcaya made in her corkbark tube in the previously attached enclosure. Certainly atleast looks tight, cozy, and secure from a non-theraphosid view point.

 

[boina]

I'll be genuinly curious if your results match mine (I might ask in a few weeks). With my arboreal Ornithoctoninae, I haven't really noticed a correlation between a well fed tarantula and lack of visibility (but I've definently noticed it with the obligate fossorials!).

Something I forgot to mention is to make sure to really pile the substrate behind the flat or in the tube. Add a starter burrow in the round or a cavity behind the flat so that the T can just fit in it. They'll find it and excavate a tight burrow that is completely lined with webbing.

Here's the burrow that the 6.25", 0.1 P. sp Akcaya made in her corkbark tube in the previously attached enclosure. Certainly atleast looks tight, cozy, and secure from a non-theraphosid view point.

Yeah, I kind of realized that from the pics already. Will do.

 

[Smotzer]

believe it strongly has to do with how secure they feel in their enclosures.

This applies not only to Ornithoctoninae but to all the other so called reclusive tarantulas IME and applies witu behavior to all tarantulas, I don’t even really consider any defensive now a days after ample forethought was put in.

People say Psalmopoeus irminia is super reclusive mine was out on the wood 10min ago in daylight before I left the house. It is out 80% of the time during the day and out every night. Sure if all they have is a barren enclosure with a pice of cork at 45 yeah they will be reclusive, for good reason in the wild.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

I agree that their size has been greatly exaggerated. From what I've seen and experienced, about 5.5in seems to be maximum size...no way they grow up to 8in like some people claim. They're beautiful spiders though!