Question about corn snakes,.

[Deliverme314]

My buddy is getting a corn snake and just bought a 30 gal. He wants to know if they can be kept in pairs as there is enough room. I have searched a bunch of care sheets and cant find any mentioning of this.

Thanks for humoring a herp idiot.

 

[Deliverme314]

Do they like humidity hides like leopard geckos? Also how do they do on peat moss as a substrate?

 

[xelda]

It's not a good idea to house them together, and here's why:

(This image came off of Rich Z's Cornsnakes.com forums.)

Even if you take them out to feed separately, the risk of cannibalism is there. If I recall correctly, the corns in the picture ate each other on the way home from the reptile show because the breeder had put them both into the same deli cup. Most of the time, the one that eats the other ends up dying too.

Btw, peat moss is too dusty to use a substrate for the entire tank.

 

[MilkmanWes]

30 gallons may be a bit big for a juvi. A lot of room to give up for something that doesnt need it.

I keep our younguns (all under 24 inches) in KK breeder containers, about the same floorspace as a 10 gall tank but stackable.

 

[Deliverme314]

What do you guys suggest in the way of a very natural looking substrate? Why is the dust a horrible idea? I have my leos on it and they are very happy. Not worried about the space being an issue(its not mine and he doesnt mind).

And no community. Got it.

Thanks!

 

[xelda]

You should take your leos off of the peat moss unless you're using it only for the humid hide. The dust can induce respiratory infections that don't go away by themselves. We're talking about inhaling foreign matter that they can't hack up. For snakes, this is even more of an endangerment since they only have one functional lung.

I don't think a 30 gallon would be too big for a baby corn provided that you've got enough hides for it. It'll eventually need that room when it's full-grown.

 

[Deliverme314]

You should take your leos off of the peat moss unless you're using it only for the humid hide. The dust can induce respiratory infections that don't go away by themselves. We're talking about inhaling foreign matter that they can't hack up. For snakes, this is even more of an endangerment since they only have one functional lung.

I don't think a 30 gallon would be too big for a baby corn provided that you've got enough hides for it. It'll eventually need that room when it's full-grown.

I guess it doesnt make sense to me because this is quite similar to the wild... And there is no free floating dust. I have known many people to use it as a substrate for leos so I am not concerned there but if people have had bad experience with it for snakes I would like to hear about it as I am trying to help my buddy set up this tank to be as conducive to a good life for his corn as possible (he is buying it in three weeks) and yes there are multiple hides.

 

[xelda]

Ehh, peat moss does NOT similate the wild. There doesn't have to be free-floating dust because the leos and snakes are crawling around in it.

I formerly used peat moss for my humid hides. My leos loved sleeping in them around the clock, but they never stayed inside them if the peat moss ever happened to dry out and got dusty.

If you're not sure about the health issues associated with dusty substrates, I recommend that you try talking to an exotic animal vet.

 

[Deliverme314]

Ehh, peat moss does NOT similate the wild. There doesn't have to be free-floating dust because the leos and snakes are crawling around in it.

I formerly used peat moss for my humid hides. My leos loved sleeping in them around the clock, but they never stayed inside them if the peat moss ever happened to dry out and got dusty.

If you're not sure about the health issues associated with dusty substrates, I recommend that you try talking to an exotic animal vet.

First off I really do appreciate your advice. Sorry if I sound combative. If not peat can you reccommend another natural substrate? Maybe a pure potting soil? I refuse to use paper towel or news paper etc. as I have created a really nice natural looking vivarium for him(soon to have a lasy or two)

oh and I am asking for both my leo and the corn snake.

 

[reverendsterlin]

I use a product called EnviroGuard landscape mulch, a recycled paper product that comes in both a red and a grey. I've been very happy with it and it can be found in places like Lowes and Home Depot at a decent price. As stated housing together is not a good idea. I keep my adults in 20 gal longs with no problems.
Rev

 

[Deliverme314]

I use a product called EnviroGuard landscape mulch, a recycled paper product that comes in both a red and a grey. I've been very happy with it and it can be found in places like Lowes and Home Depot at a decent price. As stated housing together is not a good idea. I keep my adults in 20 gal longs with no problems.
Rev

Sorry... couldnt quite gather if you were stating that you keep them together in 20s? Or individualy?

 

[MilkmanWes]

Why is the dust a horrible idea?

In an open air setting the dust gets blown away, but in an enclosre the same amount of dust is recirculated around and around and there is no way to escape it. Also it means wiping down the sides more often to keep it looking clean.

Our corns do not have very naturalistic settings right now. When they grow up to need their full sized adult cage I will make them more natural. Right now I use Aspen shavings for them because I like the way it simulates leaf litter for them.

 

[reverendsterlin]

adult individuals alone in 20 gal long tanks.
Rev

 

[xelda]

The best natural-looking substrate would be ceramic tile or slate--the kind you can get from Home Depot or Lowe's.

 

[Schlyne]

Hi. You can pick up aspen shavings, the expandable coconut stuff (it looks like a compressed brick, and is sold by t rex, I think)...or you can get repti bark. You should be able to find this stuff at a major pet store (like petco).

NO cedar, NO pine. Those emit toxic fumes.

Corn snakes will often eat each other if housed together, so you should keep them seperated.

You will probably want to lay down a sheet of newspaper over the substrate when you feed your corn snake, so it doesn't accidently ingest the substrate.

Heating wise, belly heat is better than using a heat lamp. You're going to want belly heat to aid in digestion. You can get the undertank heaters, and corn snakes go from 70 to 88 degrees. Keep one side warm and one side cool for thermoregulation.

If you want to get a book on cornsakes, get the one by bill love and kathy love. It's called the cornsnake manual.

That's probably some info you know already, but that's all I can think of for now.

 

[Vanan]

I have been using peat moss for 3yrs now and have had no incident of respiratory problems with my snakes. Know many others who do so too, and never had a problem. If you're so worried about your snake inhaling peat dust which should have settled on the bottom anyways, just give it a quick spray. Peat moss is the best subtrate I've ever used and won't go back to anything else. I've heard aspen shaving being more dusty and causing more respiratory problems due to the added presence of wood phenols. I've used crushed walnut too on my burrowers and found it's dust to cause problems to my hognose.

Peat has the added quality of being acidic which keeps bacteria levels down. Never had a problem with it moulding either. Plus a bale of it is cheaper than any other non-toxic (pine, cedar) bedding.

The search for the perfect substrate continues for most....but I think I have found mine. Only problem with peat moss I find is that albino snakes (or white snakes, leucistics) tend to be discoloured by the peat moss but a quick rinse washes the particles away.

 

[Schlyne]

I acutally don't use the aspen anymore, I've switched to the expandable stuff (aka coconut coir). It's been the best for holding in humidity for my ball python.

As for my milk snake, she lives in a rubbermaid, so why bother with the completely natural look? She's on newspaper.

 

[Joe]

I've heard that "repti bark", the kind that is actually fir bark, has the same problems as cedar and pine shavings with the presence of phenols. As far as aspen, I've always been told that it's a hardwood and doesn't have the aromatic oils that cedar and pine have. I usually use cypress mulch for my snakes, but it's hard to come by in some areas.

 

[haroldo359]

i use cypress mulch for 95% of my herps. and yeah, my corns and leos.

it is possible to house the corns together. but it makes things more complicated. there is a chance of cannibalism. especially after feeding, where even if you feed them seperately, you put them back in the cage and they both smell like food. it IS better to keep them separate.