Price increases?

[cantthinkofone]

Is it just me or are snake prices sky rocketing? I used to see hognose snakes for sale at 60-70 dollar price range now all I see is 125 stupid as I'll get out morphs. No originals only expensive morphs *sigh* it makes me wanna cry. Anyone else seeing this or am I losing it?

 

[Munch]

Same thing with ball pythons it is crazy my normal 16 inch BP cost $30 at the pet store they were $70 , and only you can find is morphs.:cry:

 

[le-thomas]

They cater, in the most basic and assumptive sense, to dumb boys. I see it happen all the time with my friends. Also, the "morph" thing is the main reason people are keeping and breeding reptiles in such great numbers, and I think that's a shame. I think morphs are kind of unnecessary and just muddy up the "natural" state of the species when they get so broad and, I would say, out of hand, like in the case of ball pythons. That said there are some boa morphs that intrigue me. It's a market though, and these animals are, to most people, products.

 

[Munch]

I know and, it messes up the gene pool, and if you look at normals they are thriving and albinos(and all morphs really) look sick and streesed it maybe just me. They do think of them as products insted of living, breathing animals, so sad.

 

[cantthinkofone]

if youve never seen my rant before I HATE ball pythons. the reasoning? because its breeder sell to breeder. no one just says one day "Oh geez jim lets go down to the reptile show today and unload 3,000 in a python and we aint gonna breed it either" i think its ridiculous! i want a hognose and im in the business for finding one so if anybody knows a breeder that has normal "morph" hoggies for like 30-60 dollar price range you be sure to pm me. i feel that most morphs are cool but not when you charge 2000-3000! i was on fauna classifieds and apparently the "anaconda morph" is worth 2000-3000.

 

[Munch]

I know it's not like any other person is gonna pay $3000 for a ball python.

 

[Niffarious]

If you hate morphs so much, why are you bothered by their price?

It's simply supply and demand. If there are suddenly hognose morphs available, the price for normal animals (especially females) will rise as more people show interest in working with the species. There are people buying up entire clutches - the price will go up.

Nothing wrong with morphs - they aren't going back into the wild, and most people breeding them outcross plenty.

 

[cantthinkofone]

im fine with some morphs but some are inbred and that makes me sick. if you dont like the animal the way it is than go work with another animal. you dont need to modify something thats already a beauty.

---------- Post added 05-27-2013 at 11:02 PM ----------

some morphs are also cool but shouldnt be up priced as much as they are. a breeder i used to be fair friends with recently lost some of my respect because he started offering "morphs" that werent even morphs! if it was even slightly oranger than a regular hoggie he called it "Sunburst" and charged 300$ he also had some other ridiculous morphs and it was not a big thing.

 

[Niffarious]

The morphs are priced at the point at which they will sell. Again, supply and demand - and I do not see why you care if you hate them so much.

I see nothing wrong with breeding and cultivating morphs that will not be released into the wild. It's a hobby, and an art. If you don't like them that's fine - but that does not make morphs inbred, wrong, or priced 'wrong'. To each their own, and some people may find a morph more beautiful than the original colours. That opinion is no less valid than yours.

Breeders who are following poor ethical standards are also not a reason to hate morphs. There are many good ones for every bad one - much like this hobby. The bad ones are eventually outed, and do not last long in the hobby.

I understand that you are frustrated about not finding a hognose snake at the price point you want, but that doesn't mean you have to get mad because people like things that you don't like. There are people devoting much time, energy and money on these animals as a labour of love. You don't like them? For real, and not because of the price? Fine...but no need for the vitriol. Keep on faunaclassfieds, kingsnake, etc. You will find the snake you want.

 

[cantthinkofone]

i understand and its not the prices its the fact that well breeding snakes costs food costs plus electricity costs for the most part so if the costs to breed it are the same as a regular morph then the dramatic price uping is un needed. im fine with morphs and if not outrageously priced would be the proud owner of a "anaconda morph" hoggie as i find them intriguing. but that same snake (dna wise) is only worth basically 60-80$ not 2,000$

---------- Post added 05-28-2013 at 12:13 AM ----------

now you got me looking and i found another morph i would love. just guess the price. 3,000? Nope! 4,000? Nope! 5,000? yes. 5,000 dollars for my new favorite morph and thats just... geez. did find them on the cheap tho

 

[akarikuragi]

Okay. Let's take a look at some other low cost/high cost things.

Precious gems. Why is cubic zirconium so much less expensive than diamonds? To me they look exactly the same, and the only way to tell if something is a diamond or not (other than trying to cut glass with it) is to look at it with a magnifying glass. Pure and simple: cubic zirconium is way more abundant than diamonds.

Shoes/designer clothes. Nike makes lots of shoes. Some of them are cheap. Some of them cost thousands of dollars. What is so different about then? The ones that cost thousands of dollars are made exactly the same way as the cheaper ones, they cost the same for materials, electricity, etc. So why are they so much more expensive? Because they are special. They are rare. They are different.

Snake morphs. The rarer the morph the more expensive it's going to be. This also applies to mutli-gene animals, those who have multiple co-dominant genes expressed. They are rare because it takes generations to get to them, and they are unique because they look so dang different! This makes people want them more and more. And there are lots of people who buy snakes for the sake of owning a snake. I wouldn't want to purchase a normal ball python but (if I had the money) I would definitely spend whatever it cost to buy an awesome looking morph. It's similar to tarantulas. Certain species are dirt cheap, certain ones will cost you a couple hundred dollars. A lot of people buy them as pets and then decide to breed them because they think it will be a cool, educational experience. Snakes aren't that different.

I don't particularly like hognose snakes, so I haven't been following them. I do however love ball pythons, and have noticed the exact opposite of what you've said. The price of the normals and even the more common morphs (pastels, lessers, mojaves, etc) have gone down by half over the past few years. Now if you go to a retail store then yes, even normals are going to be on the more expensive side (about $70) but that is the same for any animal you buy. Even tarantulas and other inverts are like this. You can get the best deals from private breeders, then online retail stores, and then commercial pet stores are going to be the most expensive. Snakes are the same way. You can get a normal ball python from an online breed from about $40, maybe less if you look around.

Very few ball python morphs are actually inbred, mostly because the vast majority of them are co dominant. Meaning you only need one part for it to show, but two parts make it look like something else all together. These morphs tend to be cheaper because you can produce them without having two of the same type. Meaning you can breed a lesser to a normal and have half the clutch be lessers and half be normal. This is also why there are so many normal ball pythons for sale.

Hognose morphs, however, tend to be all recessive. Meaning you need to have two animals that carry the same gene in order for it to be expressed in its babies. This means that people who breed them will, at the very least, have an expressed morph (such as an albino) and a carrier (het albino) and then breed them together. The resulting offspring will be half expressed albino and half carriers for albino. Thus resulting in no "normal" babies (although the snakes would appear normal). Or they will breed to hets together and get possible hets, which are still more expensive than normals.

I highly doubt the majority of snakes out there, regardless of their morphs, are inbred. There is simply too many people producing too many things that unless they are inbreeding their own snakes which is a fairly rare occurrence, I believe. Morphs, to me, certainly don't look sickly, unless they are of a morph that has a defect connected to it, such as the head wobble in spiders and the kinks in caramels. But one could argue that these things are like genetic defects in animals such as dogs and cats. Like how blue eyes can lead to deafness, or how certain breeds are prone to certain diseases. Does this mean we shouldn't breed them at all? No. It does, however, mean that we shouldn't breed any animals expressing the defects and should only breed healthy animals. This is the difference between a reputable breeder and one who is just doing it for money, and it is up to you to make that judgement call.

Now, I wouldn't pay anything more than $20 for a hognose, but you are obviously will to pay $30-$60 for one. Why? Because you like it. x3 I would love to pay $300 for a ball python morph that I like (so long as it is fair market value), whereas you would not. Why? Because I like it and you don't. Does me not liking hognose make it any less okay for you to like it? No. Does you not liking morphs make it any less okay for me to like it? No. So long as the animals are healthy and being well looked after, which the majority of people breeding snakes do (it's a hobby just like keeping tarantulas) and ethical breeding practices are being... well, practiced, then there is no reason why you should so vehemently hate morphs. The normals aren't going anywhere, and the as more people enter the hobby and more become available, they will actually go down in price. Even those darn expensive morphs will go down in time. : P You just gotta be patient!

And my rant is now over. XD Sorry that was so long and I apologize if any of it came across as hostile. Everything is just opinion though. : )

Also, BHB sells normal hognose babies for $50 each if you'd like to go check them out. : ) You really just have to be persistent and look around. D: Smart shopping and such!

 

[Najakeeper]

Okay. Let's take a look at some other low cost/high cost things.

Precious gems. Why is cubic zirconium so much less expensive than diamonds? To me they look exactly the same, and the only way to tell if something is a diamond or not (other than trying to cut glass with it) is to look at it with a magnifying glass. Pure and simple: cubic zirconium is way more abundant than diamonds.

Shoes/designer clothes. Nike makes lots of shoes. Some of them are cheap. Some of them cost thousands of dollars. What is so different about then? The ones that cost thousands of dollars are made exactly the same way as the cheaper ones, they cost the same for materials, electricity, etc. So why are they so much more expensive? Because they are special. They are rare. They are different.

Snake morphs. The rarer the morph the more expensive it's going to be. This also applies to mutli-gene animals, those who have multiple co-dominant genes expressed. They are rare because it takes generations to get to them, and they are unique because they look so dang different! This makes people want them more and more. And there are lots of people who buy snakes for the sake of owning a snake. I wouldn't want to purchase a normal ball python but (if I had the money) I would definitely spend whatever it cost to buy an awesome looking morph. It's similar to tarantulas. Certain species are dirt cheap, certain ones will cost you a couple hundred dollars. A lot of people buy them as pets and then decide to breed them because they think it will be a cool, educational experience. Snakes aren't that different.

I don't particularly like hognose snakes, so I haven't been following them. I do however love ball pythons, and have noticed the exact opposite of what you've said. The price of the normals and even the more common morphs (pastels, lessers, mojaves, etc) have gone down by half over the past few years. Now if you go to a retail store then yes, even normals are going to be on the more expensive side (about $70) but that is the same for any animal you buy. Even tarantulas and other inverts are like this. You can get the best deals from private breeders, then online retail stores, and then commercial pet stores are going to be the most expensive. Snakes are the same way. You can get a normal ball python from an online breed from about $40, maybe less if you look around.

Very few ball python morphs are actually inbred, mostly because the vast majority of them are co dominant. Meaning you only need one part for it to show, but two parts make it look like something else all together. These morphs tend to be cheaper because you can produce them without having two of the same type. Meaning you can breed a lesser to a normal and have half the clutch be lessers and half be normal. This is also why there are so many normal ball pythons for sale.

Hognose morphs, however, tend to be all recessive. Meaning you need to have two animals that carry the same gene in order for it to be expressed in its babies. This means that people who breed them will, at the very least, have an expressed morph (such as an albino) and a carrier (het albino) and then breed them together. The resulting offspring will be half expressed albino and half carriers for albino. Thus resulting in no "normal" babies (although the snakes would appear normal). Or they will breed to hets together and get possible hets, which are still more expensive than normals.

I highly doubt the majority of snakes out there, regardless of their morphs, are inbred. There is simply too many people producing too many things that unless they are inbreeding their own snakes which is a fairly rare occurrence, I believe. Morphs, to me, certainly don't look sickly, unless they are of a morph that has a defect connected to it, such as the head wobble in spiders and the kinks in caramels. But one could argue that these things are like genetic defects in animals such as dogs and cats. Like how blue eyes can lead to deafness, or how certain breeds are prone to certain diseases. Does this mean we shouldn't breed them at all? No. It does, however, mean that we shouldn't breed any animals expressing the defects and should only breed healthy animals. This is the difference between a reputable breeder and one who is just doing it for money, and it is up to you to make that judgement call.

Now, I wouldn't pay anything more than $20 for a hognose, but you are obviously will to pay $30-$60 for one. Why? Because you like it. x3 I would love to pay $300 for a ball python morph that I like (so long as it is fair market value), whereas you would not. Why? Because I like it and you don't. Does me not liking hognose make it any less okay for you to like it? No. Does you not liking morphs make it any less okay for me to like it? No. So long as the animals are healthy and being well looked after, which the majority of people breeding snakes do (it's a hobby just like keeping tarantulas) and ethical breeding practices are being... well, practiced, then there is no reason why you should so vehemently hate morphs. The normals aren't going anywhere, and the as more people enter the hobby and more become available, they will actually go down in price. Even those darn expensive morphs will go down in time. : P You just gotta be patient!

And my rant is now over. XD Sorry that was so long and I apologize if any of it came across as hostile. Everything is just opinion though. : )

Also, BHB sells normal hognose babies for $50 each if you'd like to go check them out. : ) You really just have to be persistent and look around. D: Smart shopping and such!

Above is the longer version, here is the shorter version: Market determines price, it is a supply and demand game, get over it.

 

[Fossa]

My main beef with the designer morph, certainly in the UK is a certain breeder here (not mentioning names) is breeding so intensively that they are taking one genetic throwback and labelling this as a new morph and slapping a £8000-£10000 price tag on it (no joke on price there). Its like I could take one of my normals that has a strange patternless section over one cm of its body (I know this is from two normal parents so is just a throwback) and rather than breeding this snake to a completely different blood line for a couple of generations and identifying that this is a common trait in genes I would put this one snake on the market at £4000 and give it a name like ghost patternless diamond saddleback royal python and wait for the next throwback I got. Then all siblings could be sold as het ghost patternless diamond saddleback and sold at £2000 so thats potentially £20000 from a handful of eggs.

 

[pouchedrat]

I do the hognose thing... but I'm new to it (only had them a few years). I've noticed my f2 wild type western hogs look a LOT different than my normal and het hogs (nevermind morphs) who came from long-bred lines. They act different and have grown different as well. It's fascinating to say the least.

I did buy an adult male normal ball python with unknown hets for $40... the thing hasn't eaten in probably a month but he's heavy into a shed. I guess you get what you pay for.

 

[Shrike]

albinos(and all morphs really) look sick and streesed it maybe just me.

I don't prefer color morphs myself, but this isn't true.

 

[Niffarious]

I don't particularly like hognose snakes, so I haven't been following them. I do however love ball pythons, and have noticed the exact opposite of what you've said. The price of the normals and even the more common morphs (pastels, lessers, mojaves, etc) have gone down by half over the past few years.

When the first ball python morphs were making an appearance (Albino, piebald, pastel) the price of normal females skyrocketed. Things are leveling out and stabilizing. Albinos are just a few hundred now instead of several thousand. I mean...I remember when albino leopard geckos were a few thousand a piece. Within a few years, the price was low enough for almost anyone to own one. Depending on the species and how fast they reproduce, the prices on morphs will always fall eventually. Again..supply, demand.

 

[friendttyy]

In SA ball pythons at SOS retile show is R80000

 

[Ceratogyrus]

In SA ball pythons at SOS retile show is R80000

That is the maximum though. There are lots that were less than 10% of that price...