Pretty sure I know the answer

[arachnophoria]

I am considering getting a Gaboon viper.I think they are stunning and am very interested in cryptic,rainforest species.It is with great respect for the animal's potent toxin and 100% hands off approach to keeping the animal that I come to this decision.I am confident,having handled native venomous snakes,but in no way would I say I am an expert or evrn super experienced,just willing,able,and knowledgeable enough about how these guys work as captives.My question is,can one buy antivenom to have on hand.My research indicates that a severe bite,which results in envenomation,could require up to 10 vials of antivenom.I also found thatsuch treatment can go for about $15,000(guess I should look in my couch cushions).I know that it takes many milkings to create the antivenom and typically hospitals rely on zoos to have antivenom for species that are not native.I am guessing,but figured I'd ask...can one purchase and store this antivenom in case of emergency or does one just fly by the seat of ones pant san dhope they are never bitten in the middle of the night,when the local zoo's reptile man is in bed asleep.Even if he was awake,seconds could mean you keeping your limb or your life.It would be nice tohave a back-up,but I'm sure I know this is not possible and one just aims never to get bitten and takes precautions.Precautions,like never feed,handle,open the cage,or naything,when alone,keep compression bandages handy,have the snakes history with you(species,size,type of venom),and be aware of what you are working with.Risk are only justified,when one is aware of all of them and willing to accept responsibility.Getting bit is not on my agenda,but if it happens,I know that,I could die and it was my choice.

 

[cacoseraph]

i believe antivenom goes bad... and only lasts for a year or two for most kinds. so you would have to keep buying it if you wanted to have it on hand


also, have you looked into local statutes? probably not legal for you to keep an exotic viper

 

[Joe]

Getting bit is not on my agenda,but if it happens,I know that,I could die and it was my choice.

And if it gets loose and bites someone else? A neighbor's kid, perhaps? I've been keeping snakes for about 20 years, and I still have no inclination to keep hots of any sort. Some things are better left to professionals.

 

[scottyk]

Besides providing answers to the points posed by Caso and Joe, you should check with your local hospital. The need to be on advanced life support while the antivenin is being administered is a real possibility. Especially with something like a Gaboon, which is capable of inflicting a massive envenomation.

I would never keep a hot viper in a home setting either. If for some reason I did, I'd want to be sure there is a place nearby that stocked the correct antivenin and had an advanced trauma unit capable of dealing with this type of issue.

 

[arachnophoria]

I do not disagree with nay of the mentioned points.I do however think,that a RESPONSIBLE person is perfectly capable of keeping a gaboon viper from injuring other people around them.I plan my habitats and locations carefully.For example,I have a few hot scorps on my wish list.I am not getting any until I finish my sealed room in the basement and cover the cinderblock walls with smooth material that eliminates such creatures from getting a foot hold or leaving the room.The viper would be in the same location with beyond adequate considerations to escape prevention and safety.To me,it is the same as keeping hot scorpions,but much different than keeping a mamba or a cobra.I do not think I am superior to anyone,but I also don't think that just anyone should own hot animals.It takes a prepared,passionate individual,with a responsibility to others and the animal.I do not believe in venomoids,b/c it is wrong to alter an animal for human convienience,unless for food or vital resources.I feel I am reasonable and responsible enough to keep venomous animals.I certainly will investigate the legality of my interest,before going ahead with any plans.Thanks for the replys.

 

[cacoseraph]

i do not think this is a good first hot species.


in CA it is legal to capture a non-special status rattlesnake, provided local statutes don't prevent you. why not try to find a local venomous? or failing that... something that is from the USA that in-range hospitals would stock antivenom for? there are some gorgeous rattlesnakes in CA and i am sure CA hospitals have appropriate antivenin. also, it is probably cheaper than gaboon AV

 

[Widowman10]

i do not think this is a good first hot species.


in CA it is legal to capture a non-special status rattlesnake, provided local statutes don't prevent you. why not try to find a local venomous? or failing that... something that is from the USA that in-range hospitals would stock antivenom for? there are some gorgeous rattlesnakes in CA and i am sure CA hospitals have appropriate antivenin. also, it is probably cheaper than gaboon AV

i agree with you caco. i have thought pretty hard about getting a venomous snake recently. for a first hot species, i would go with something local as well. most all the hospitals will have anti-venin on hand and ready, whereas they prob won't have a gaboon viper anti-venin anywhere near. you could get some good experience and be even that much more safer. for now. get the gaboon a few years down the road. but i agree that if a passionate, very responsible and practical individual wants to, he/she can own a very hot species and be perfectly fine. you've just got to use common sense and be able to anticipate any and all problems.

bottom line, get a local hot species first. it seems like a more practical idea. i know it's not what you prob want to do, but it makes more sense. get the gaboon in a year or two when you've got the whole thing down good. again, anticipate any and all problems you might have, and if you have any problems at all (which you prob won't, but...), you want it to be with a rattler, not a gaboon. that's just my logical 2 cents...

 

[blacktara]

"I do not disagree with nay of the mentioned points.I do however think,that a RESPONSIBLE person is perfectly capable of keeping a gaboon viper from injuring other people around them.I plan my habitats and locations carefully"

Oh really? And what if there is an event you didnt plan for? A flood, a quake, a fire? And then the thing gets loose

There is no earthly reason for an everyday civilian, fascinated though they may be by herps, and experienced though they may be by herps, to keep a hot snake in their home

 

[Widowman10]

Oh really? And what if there is an event you didnt plan for? A flood, a quake, a fire? And then the thing gets loose

There is no earthly reason for an everyday civilian, fascinated though they may be by herps, and experienced though they may be by herps, to keep a hot snake in their home

i don't know... with no kids or others, i don't know why not. if you are very responsible and very cautious, i think it would be allright. if he has a special room that is very well sealed off, and designs the cage really good, even in a huge unexpected event, it'll probably be fine. i've never owned a hot before though, just thinkin out loud.

 

[cacoseraph]

There is no earthly reason for an everyday civilian, fascinated though they may be by herps, and experienced though they may be by herps, to keep a hot snake in their home

that is a little absolute for me. plenty of ppl would say the same about the more "advanced" scorpions and spiders.


i think it is very possible to safely keep a hot snake in a home, as long as adequate precautions are taken. for any of the more dangerous bugs i keep, i keep them in kill cages... cages that will kill the bug before they can be opened accidentily. of course, a 3" scorpion or 1" spider is a LOT easier to contain than a snake. ... but then again, i expect a gaboon is going to be in the $1500-3000 range so a $1000-3000 caging solution is not that unreasonable. for $3000 i could build a cage that nothing could escape from, no doubt

 

[Widowman10]

for $3000 i could build a cage that nothing could escape from, no doubt

i could buy a safe from wally world for a lot cheaper:?. nothing can get out of that...

just curious caco, have you built a cage like that, if so, picture please???

 

[Tleilaxu]

that is a little absolute for me. plenty of ppl would say the same about the more "advanced" scorpions and spiders.


i think it is very possible to safely keep a hot snake in a home, as long as adequate precautions are taken. for any of the more dangerous bugs i keep, i keep them in kill cages... cages that will kill the bug before they can be opened accidentily. of course, a 3" scorpion or 1" spider is a LOT easier to contain than a snake. ... but then again, i expect a gaboon is going to be in the $1500-3000 range so a $1000-3000 caging solution is not that unreasonable. for $3000 i could build a cage that nothing could escape from, no doubt

What is a kill cage and how does it work?

 

[cacoseraph]

i could buy a safe from wally world for a lot cheaper:?. nothing can get out of that...

just curious caco, have you built a cage like that, if so, picture please???

neg. i don't actually like to keep stuff that is all that dangerous. worst things i keep are pokies. and i only have a cat and a cornsnake for bone things =P

What is a kill cage and how does it work?

just a cage that will resist opening to a degree that the spider would die as a result of accidental mechanical (or whatever) forces accidentily brought to bear on the cage. in simpler terms: a shatter resistant plastic jar cage with a well fitting screw top lid. heh.
things like critter keepers are as likely to pop open as to kill the bug in them. for non-dangerous stuff... perhaps an advantage. for nasty stuff... decidedly not.

if i had bigger/scarier stuff i could probably design something else. more complicated = more failure points though

 

[arachnophoria]

I certainly see the logic of obtaining a local hot,rather than a non native one.I have handled(not free handles,but worked with in the field) native venomous snakes,like the copperhead.It is certainly logical also,to have a less venomous species first,than advance to the more dangerous and these are excellent suggestions for someone wanting to get into hot snakes.I for one, interested only in a handful of hot snakes.Gaboon vipers,Rhino vipers,eyelash vipers,and the hybrid that naturally occurs between the Rhino and Gaboon,if it is natural.I suppose it is hard to explain,but often when I form these crusades to obtain an exotic species(hot or not),I have a very specific and regionally authentic set-up in mind(all African plants in the enclosure) and a native species is much harder to keep,since all the plants here need a cool winter dormancy and so do the snakes.I want to keep the snakes in my invertebrate room,so it will be kept at above winter rest temps at all times.I am really not new to herps,or inexperienced dealing with wild venomous animals,but I have just no started really researching the implications of owning them long-term.I guess my feeling are evident in that I feel you can't be bitten,or in the case of scorpions,stung,if you don't handle and are careful in what you do.Accidents happen,but they do in autombiles and planes,they do takeing baths and sitting on the commode.One just has to know what one is getting into and take responsibility.I certainly do not mind suggestions to keep other species,but I will not argue with people,who flame their opinion,that no one should own a venomous animal.I respect it and they are entitled,but I see no reason to argue the different points back and forth here.I may be nuts,but my lack of sanity for those who are inclined to view me as nuts,is my own and I am putting myself alone at risk,if I get said animal.I invite the reasonable among you to look up pics of the Gaboon viper and Rhino viper and bask in the beauty of these snakes.And if you must,cut and paste the deadly implications of a bite,but I have already read them,so it is not going to disuade me.I suppose I thought you might be able to relate,being I'm sure you have seen a tarantula or scorpion you had to have and everyone else thought you were nuts.The venom factor only changes the scenario slightly,in that you have to be 100% safe.I am no different than anyone who likes safe animals and in fact I enjoy all my non venomous pets,proving this is a responsible adult,not some thoughtless teen on a ''cool it's got big fangs and can kill people''.''Wait til I show Bubba''. attitude.

 

[Scylla]

A viper I have known

http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii204/Scylla_photos/?action=view&current=Gabon.jpg

That was one heavy snake.

 

[arachnophoria]

Soooooo purrrty:drool:.
Thanks for the link.

 

[Widowman10]

That was one heavy snake.

DANG that's beautiful!!

 

[cacoseraph]

i am starting to get the feeling you just asked so ppl would tell you to get it =P


also.... i would think having all kinds of crazy exotic plants in the cage would increase the difficulty of maintaining the cage and increase the chance of the snake somehow being where you are not expecting it. i would say the more conservative approach would be to keep the snake in a more minimalist setup and then work your way up to a fully planted natural setup


alternately... you could build and plant the cage now... and maybe get a nonhot species that is sympatric to gaboons and similar in microhabitat needs... and keep that in there to test the cage security and fine tune the plant keeping

 

[Mushroom Spore]

It is certainly logical also,to have a less venomous species first,than advance to the more dangerous and these are excellent suggestions for someone wanting to get into hot snakes.I for one, interested only in a handful of hot snakes.

I think it would be better in the long run to start out with an "easier" local (for the reasons previously said, mostly the availability of antivenom) even if it's not one of the species you're madly in love with right now, or even if you have to keep it in a different room than the specially-heated one. When it comes to something as serious as life and death, why not be as careful as you can? Or at least as careful as a person can be when they're purposely bringing venomous snakes into their home.

Also this is driving me nuts about your posts, but why are there no spaces after your punctuation marks? :8o

 

[Widowman10]

Also this is driving me nuts about your posts, but why are there no spaces after your punctuation marks? :8o

maybe he is like me.and doesn't think they are necessary.you know,when i was growing up,they used to teach to put 2 spaces after periods.now,they only teach to leave 1 space after periods.kinda confusing if you ask me.or,we could start a new system of teaching where you leave NO spaces after periods.i like that one better.it suits laziness quite well.;P haha,just messin with ya.a little.