Phrynus whitei breeding questions

[ReignofInvertebrates]

I’ve been keeping Phrynidae spp. for several years now, but this is my first time diving into breeding. I have a pretty big group of P. whitei (housed separately) and I’m hoping to find some pairs in the bunch. A few questions first:

1: I’m confident in how to sex them, but is there a way to tell if they’re sexually mature? I read somewhere that individuals can mate well before reaching maximum size.

2: How long should I leave a pair together for? Is there extensive courtship behavior or does the male just drop the spermatophore and bolt?

3: I’m aware that Phrynus usually take a long time to develop eggs, but does anyone know a general timeframe?

Any info is much appreciated! I’m super excited to try this because these have always been among my favorite arachnids.

 

[mantisfan101]

1. Amblypygids are sexually mature and can reproduce long before they reach full size, not sure if it’s the same with whitei. Generally speaking if they look and are as big as typical adults, they are ready. Personally I’d wait for the females at least to molt before lairing
2. As long as you want, maybe wait until you see a couple spermatophores, so maybe a couple weeks/months
3. Mine started developing eggs and eventually laid her sac about 3-4 weeks. Gestation takes the longest, usually anywhere 3-5 months I believe.
I only have experience with barbadensis, try asking @wizentrop or @Banshee05

 

[wizentrop]

@mantisfan101 is correct with their info. Not much I can add here.

 

[ReignofInvertebrates]

@mantisfan101 is correct with their info. Not much I can add here.

1. Amblypygids are sexually mature and can reproduce long before they reach full size, not sure if it’s the same with whitei. Generally speaking if they look and are as big as typical adults, they are ready. Personally I’d wait for the females at least to molt before lairing
2. As long as you want, maybe wait until you see a couple spermatophores, so maybe a couple weeks/months
3. Mine started developing eggs and eventually laid her sac about 3-4 weeks. Gestation takes the longest, usually anywhere 3-5 months I believe.
I only have experience with barbadensis, try asking @wizentrop or @Banshee05

I was initially under the impression that these could be sexed by looking at the venter as with Damon spp, but now I’m reading that some Phrynidae show no external sexual dimorphism. Is this true for whitei?

 

[wizentrop]

whitei is a highly variable species. In some populations there is a clear sexual dimorphism (for example, in the "black Honduran" morphotype the males have longer pedipalps). For sexing by looking at the underside it is best to have fully grown specimens. Still, the best way to sex ANY amblypygid is by looking under the genital operculum in molts.

 

[mantisfan101]

You can sex via gential operculum, I believe males have a more round shaped operculum while females have it more boxy/trapezoidal

 

[ReignofInvertebrates]

You can sex via gential operculum, I believe males have a more round shaped operculum while females have it more boxy/trapezoidal

Looking at my specimens now, the larger ones do have variation in operculum shape, that will help a lot. Thanks for the info!

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

just got 5 of these in the mail, female had eggs all good and browning, any tips for them? Also, is cannibalism common during mating with these guys?

 

[mantisfan101]

If they have eggs, there is a chsnce that they may drop them bc of shipping stress. I personally don’t ever keep them communal at all, I only keep them together for a couple weeks/month but beforehand I fatten them up. Good luck with them and if you get any babies, pm me, I’d be interested

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

If they have eggs, there is a chsnce that they may drop them bc of shipping stress. I personally don’t ever keep them communal at all, I only keep them together for a couple weeks/month but beforehand I fatten them up. Good luck with them and if you get any babies, pm me, I’d be interested

yeah not a single one is being kept communally, I know I have 2 breeding pairs including the one with eggs, so when the time comes I'll try my hand at it. It'd be nice to get some babies within a few months, but if i dont, oh well. But, if I do, you're 1st on my list to pm

 

[ReignofInvertebrates]

If they have eggs, there is a chsnce that they may drop them bc of shipping stress. I personally don’t ever keep them communal at all, I only keep them together for a couple weeks/month but beforehand I fatten them up. Good luck with them and if you get any babies, pm me, I’d be interested

I'm trying to fatten mine up before I introduce them but I always worry about crickets nibbling on them since they usually don't eat right away (but I do want to make sure they're well fed). Is there a good way to tell if they're full or not? I'm not sure how big the abdomen should be.

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

In orin mcmonigol's book he shows juveniles ready to burst they ate so much... They can handle a lot, just dont leave the crickets in there for extended periods of time

 

[mantisfan101]

I'm trying to fatten mine up before I introduce them but I always worry about crickets nibbling on them since they usually don't eat right away (but I do want to make sure they're well fed). Is there a good way to tell if they're full or not? I'm not sure how big the abdomen should be.

Also shouldve mentioned butI like to wait till they molt first. That way if they do mate they don’t lose the spermatophore, pair eats partner while molting, female lays eggs too late, etc.

yeah not a single one is being kept communally, I know I have 2 breeding pairs including the one with eggs, so when the time comes I'll try my hand at it. It'd be nice to get some babies within a few months, but if i dont, oh well. But, if I do, you're 1st on my list to pm

Nice, good luck with them! I got a barbadensis on a sac rn so maybe we can work something out...

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

Nice, good luck with them! I got a barbadensis on a sac rn so maybe we can work something out...

im liking how that sounds!

 

[ReignofInvertebrates]

whitei is a highly variable species. In some populations there is a clear sexual dimorphism (for example, in the "black Honduran" morphotype the males have longer pedipalps). For sexing by looking at the underside it is best to have fully grown specimens. Still, the best way to sex ANY amblypygid is by looking under the genital operculum in molts.

How long would you recommend cohabiting my P. whitei pairs? I understand that they don’t engage in mating immediately but are also prone to cannibalism if left together too long.

 

[mantisfan101]

Never had experience breeding this sp but I’m about to soon, I’d say first fatten either up as much as possible(I’m feeding mine every other day, altho my male is significantly bigger than the female). Try it out for a couple weeks to a month at the absolute max...

 

[wizentrop]

I normally don't leave them cohabited more than 10 days, but it depends on the species. Some species I don't leave longer than a few hours. Not all pairs will tolerate each other. My whitei are actually quite territorial and females will attack the males if they remain close after mating. As mentioned above, it is very helpful if both specimens are at the right stage - at least a month after molting and very well fed.

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

Ive had my whitei pair together for about 4 days, and they have not exhibited any aggression.