Petco Sued After Child Dies From Infected Rat

[The Snark]

(Web search the news for a backgrounder)
I'm not looking to express my opinion about this but rather am seeking the takes, viewpoints, of others. If I may ask, please only state your viewpoint. I would rather there not be debates started. Thanks very much.

 

[Smokehound714]

Hm.. well, one should always wash their hands before and after handling any animal.

Despite the name, it's likely the child tragically caught it by kissing his friendly little friend.


This is really sad and i feel for the family, but im gonna have to side with petco, because they shouldnt be sued for this. it reeks of frivolity, which is alarming.

I mean, if they need money for funeral services and hospital bills, couldnt they just set up a donation fund with that kids face on a jar?

 

[CitizenNumber9]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/2...ter-10-year-old-boy-dies-from-rat-bite-fever/

Petco's fault all the way. If the rat had been bought from the feeder bin rather than specifically as a pet, the parents might have shared some of the guilt. If pet stores were more concerned about the well being of the animals and of their customers rather than turning a profit, this would not have happened.

 

[vespers]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/2...ter-10-year-old-boy-dies-from-rat-bite-fever/

Quoted from that article:

Petco also mentions preventative measures for rat-bite fever in information it posts online and provides in stores. The company warns that all rats are potential carriers and that pregnant women, children under the age of five and people with weakened immune systems should contact their doctor before buying a rat and "should consider not having a rat as a pet."

From the Petco website:
http://www.petco.com/caresheets/smallanimals/SA_InfectiousDiseases.pdf

It is the responsibility of the parents to be aware of the risks (and care) associated with an animal before purchasing it for their child...and be prepared to accept said risks and possibilities, regardless of their likelihood. Same goes for turtles and the risk of salmonella, for example. I seriously doubt that an elementary school-aged child is vigilant regarding hygiene after handling pets, and likely kisses and hugs them as Smokehound mentioned. Even the picture of the child shows a rat perched on his shoulder right up in his face, only an inch or so from the boy's mouth.

Personally, I side with Petco on this.

 

[Bergrider]

Quoted from that article:


From the Petco website:
http://www.petco.com/caresheets/smallanimals/SA_InfectiousDiseases.pdf

It is the responsibility of the parents to be aware of the risks (and care) associated with an animal before purchasing it for their child...and be prepared to accept said risks and possibilities, regardless of their likelihood. Same goes for turtles and the risk of salmonella, for example. I seriously doubt that an elementary school-aged child is vigilant regarding hygiene after handling pets, and likely kisses and hugs them as Smokehound mentioned. Even the picture of the child shows a rat perched on his shoulder right up in his face, only an inch or so from the boy's mouth.

Personally, I side with Petco on this.

What of this were a T instead of what it is?

I side with petco as well if you buy a animal the responsibility is on the consumer to know what it is and the potential risks involved. I have bought things from petco and other LPS in the past and they usually have paperwork involved.

With this kind of logic someone could and probably would be sued for selling an OW T from private seller to private purchaser if disaster ever insued.

With that said I do think in my opinion petco will likely loose and pay out either as a negotiated settlement or otherwise

 

[vespers]

With that said I do think in my opinion petco will likely loose and pay out either as a negotiated settlement or otherwise

My guess is that it might end with a settlement for some undisclosed amount "behind the scenes", in an attempt to keep PR damage to a minimum.

 

[Bergrider]

My guess is that it might end with a settlement for some undisclosed amount "behind the scenes", in an attempt to keep PR damage to a minimum.

Along with a very well written non disclosure agreement.

 

[bugmankeith]

Just my 2 cents, rats I feel are pets that should be seen by a vet as neutered males don't smell and the fact cancer rates can be high. I've never owned a rat , but perhaps this could of been prevented by some sort of vaccine or antibiotics given to the infected rat?

 

[pitbulllady]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/2...ter-10-year-old-boy-dies-from-rat-bite-fever/

Petco's fault all the way. If the rat had been bought from the feeder bin rather than specifically as a pet, the parents might have shared some of the guilt. If pet stores were more concerned about the well being of the animals and of their customers rather than turning a profit, this would not have happened.

I've never seen a "feeder bin" at a Petco or PetSmart. The ones I've been to sell all of their rodents for the same outlandish price, from the same enclosures, and even sell frozen rodents for pretty much the same prices as live ones. It's definitely NOT the place to go for feeders if you have multiple snakes.
According to the CDC, the most effective testing on rodents to determine Streptobaccilus sp. infections involved killing the rodents in question and taking tissue cultures, and even then it is not always reliable. Obviously, this is not possible if you're selling live rodents. It's not a routine test that can be done prior to sale. ALL rodents, not just rats, can and often do harbor the bacterium, and most will be asymptomatic. It is likely that these infectious organisms have been present in the populations of domestic rodents since the time of them being first domesticated and since it's extremely difficult to know which are and which are not infected, it's best to err on the side of caution and assume that they ALL are, and take preventative measures to protect yourself. Streptobaccilus is easily killed on surfaces by most household disinfectants, including alcohol, so simply hygiene will prevent most infections unless you receive a bite or scratch that breaks the skin, and even then, soap and water is highly effective. Normally, people who are going to get sick will be those with compromised immune systems, the elderly and the very young(infants and toddlers), and the prognosis is usually very positive for those who DO get infected, since the pathogen responds well to antibiotics, although I do have to wonder about drug-resistant strains developing in domesticated rodents that might have been given low levels of antibiotics, perhaps via their own food source, for generations, and I also have to wonder about the prior health status of this 10-year-old boy, if there was already an underlying issue not mentioned. I also have to ask myself if perhaps he had not overdone it with the hand sanitizer in the past, not allowing his own immune system to develop properly. I have seen this many times as a teacher-kids who habitually slather on hand sanitizer every 10-15 minutes, having been told by their parents to do this, and yet those kids are the first to get sick whenever some little "bug" goes around school. My own nieces are prime examples because their father is paranoid about infectious illnesses and buys and uses hand sanitizers by the gallon, yet those girls miss many days of school due to being sick.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

Some things to consider

-The child already had one rat. The one from Petco was to be a mate for it
-As PBL pointed out, this is a relatively common bacteria that could be carried by most rodents
-Without a biopsy of the animal the child already had, the origin of the bacteria is subject to question
-Both animals could have carried the bacteria
-Possibly, neither animal carried the bacteria or there could have been another source
-"According to the lawsuit, the rat appeared safe. But the lawsuit says Petco should have known about the rodent's health and did not adequately test for the disease." Doing my own check with a lab, the only way to be 100% certain the animal is not infected is to kill it and do a series of cultures on tissue samples as the bacteria may not always be present in saliva or feces.

A little food for thought which is pretty obvious to some. Pet stores are pathogen incubators. No way around it and no way to avoid it. Get someone like Findi to weigh in on how hard it is to keep animals entirely free of transient infectious organisms even in a tightly controlled zoo environment.

 

[Tleilaxu]

This does not surprise me, the petco's I have seen up here are just filthy, often with dead animals still in the cages, I will never forget seeing the mouse bin with five dead mice in it, so I can very well believe someone got an infected pet from there,

However it is also highly probable that there is another issue with the child that is not being mentioned, perhaps as has been stated, a surpressed immune system. Either way I still believe that both parties are at fault, petco for its often lax and substandard animal care and the parent for not being a parent.

 

[pitbulllady]

Some things to consider

-The child already had one rat. The one from Petco was to be a mate for it
-As PBL pointed out, this is a relatively common bacteria that could be carried by most rodents
-Without a biopsy of the animal the child already had, the origin of the bacteria is subject to question
-Both animals could have carried the bacteria
-Possibly, neither animal carried the bacteria or there could have been another source
-"According to the lawsuit, the rat appeared safe. But the lawsuit says Petco should have known about the rodent's health and did not adequately test for the disease." Doing my own check with a lab, the only way to be 100% certain the animal is not infected is to kill it and do a series of cultures on tissue samples as the bacteria may not always be present in saliva or feces.

A little food for thought which is pretty obvious to some. Pet stores are pathogen incubators. No way around it and no way to avoid it. Get someone like Findi to weigh in on how hard it is to keep animals entirely free of transient infectious organisms even in a tightly controlled zoo environment.

Also, there was no mention of the family having other pets aside from the first rat. Animals that eat or come into contact with infected rodents can also harbor and transmit the infection, including cats. Surfaces that have been contaminated with the urine or feces of wild infected rodents can also be a source of the disease, which is why whenever food banks or other food storage facilities that provide food to the public show any sign of rodents being present, all food, even that in cans, has to be discarded because the outer surfaces can be harboring infectious pathogens. It really concerns me, though, that Streptobacillus might have been present in the rat, but not the actual cause of the kid's death. It is just very unusual for this to be fatal in healthy humans, and if it WAS the cause of death, either there was already a serious weakness of this kid's immune system, which his parents should have known about, thus making their decision to get him pet rats in the first place questionable, OR there is something else going on in tandem with the rat bite fever. The suddenness of the child's death is not consistent with the CDC's description of symptoms. The child's symptoms came on suddenly and he was dead literally within hours, even after having been rushed to the hospital. According to the CDC, fever is present some 2-4 days before other symptoms become noticeable, so it's like a gradual progression of symptoms. It CAN be fatal IF LEFT UNTREATED, but the boy was rushed to the hospital at the onset of symptoms with severe stomach pains and high fever that came on suddenly during the night. Those symptoms just don't match up with anything I've read about RBF. While the RAT was killed and did test positive for the pathogen, I have not read anything to indicate that the child was tested for it. Most rodents DO harbor the bacterium, so the chances of any given rodent testing positive for it are pretty high. I have to wonder if the child's death and rat having Streptobaccilus might not actually be related, which means that the actual cause of the boy's death is being overlooked.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

There are many unknowns. It is interesting the takes people have regarding this.

Just an FYI, which may not have been the SOP the hospital followed, a patient brought in with a high fever, a blood draw and white count is normally done which takes less than an hour. A significantly elevated white count is treated prophylacticly with a broad spectrum antibiotic IV. The broad spectrum AB of choice is Augmentin. Augmentin is augmented amoxycillin. Amoxy is the front line treatment of choice for Streptobacillus.

 

[pitbulllady]

There are many unknowns. It is interesting the takes people have regarding this.

Just an FYI, which may not have been the SOP the hospital followed, a patient brought in with a high fever, a blood draw and white count is normally done which takes less than an hour. A significantly elevated white count is treated prophylacticly with a broad spectrum antibiotic IV. The broad spectrum AB of choice is Augmentin. Augmentin is augmented amoxycillin. Amoxy is the front line treatment of choice for Streptobacillus.

That's part of what does not make sense. It is normal protocol to immediately start an IV of a broad-spectrum antibiotic as soon as a patient presents with a high fever and noticeably elevated WBC. I did a lot of researching and didn't find much evidence to support a resistant strain of Streptobacillus, so had the child actually been sick with that, the antibiotic should have started to alleviate symptoms. Instead, he was dead within just a few hours of the onset of symptoms and the initial onset was extremely acute in severity. Something's not adding up here. I have to wonder how many illnesses in children, many fatal, have gone misdiagnosed because instead of testing the CHILD for specific pathogens, only animals that were in contact with the child were tested, and upon finding some pathogen or another in the animal, the conclusion was made that this is what made the child sick, when in fact the two situations could have been completely unrelated.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

It is pretty obvious that three cases can be made. Against Petco, for general as well as specific reasons, personal responsibility in a world that isn't quite completely safe and sanitized, and against pet ownership in general.
Petco: There are always going to be unsavory animal purveyors and degrees of responsible ones that don't meet someones standards.
Personal Responsibility: Not a perfect world. Hot coffee is hot. Animals harbor diseases.
Pet Ownership: Do you have a license to own that ratbatcatstoatgoatlionlemuropossumpoodlecamelephantelopeacoctopuseacow???

And it is obviously going to be who has the smoothest fastest talking lawyer determining the winner, possibly without regard for all the facts.


PBL. While your post is accurate and relevant, it does not take into account one small detail in Litigious land. Call me a cynic but I've seen more than my fair share of medical expert witnesses. Any competent lawyer worth the beans to make a fart can successfully argue that the expert medical authority with the most tenure and letters behind his/her name will win the case. And doctors sell their services. The Hippocratic oath can get tossed out the window with theoretical PM situations through rationalization.

 

[pouchedrat]

Do I dare reply to this?

I had streptobacillary fever in college.... my mother was on vacation at the time, and I was bad off by the time she returned. I was hospitalized over a week, had two disease experts from out of state working on me, and many months later I was still having reoccuring symptoms and arthritis. Yes, tested and found gram negative rods S. moniliformis

I was vomiting constantly, had severe diarrhea, a painful rash and boils on my hands, arms, feet, and legs, and migratory arthritis that had moved from one leg, to my shoulders and arms, to the other leg, to hips, etc... each day it was elsewhere. At one point early on in the illness I drove home sick from work and the entire world felt like it was in fast motion. It took many days for it to reach this point, and like I said, my mother was on vacation and I was home alone for over a week before she came home to me, in bed and unable to move. At the hospital, When they came by to take photos of me for medical journals, I had to sign the release forms with an X, it was that bad.

The thing is..... This disease is VERY VERY easily treatable... I mean, SERIOUSLY easily treatable with antibiotics. The issue is that it's not so easily identifiable. They even thought it could have been rocky mountain spotted fever at the time. It's a rare disease....

My mother had my rats put down while I was in the hospital. I've never forgiven her for it, and I still to this day do NOT believe it was from them. They had myco in the past and had been treated with antibiotics for it. We did, however, have cats who brought in dead voles which I cleaned up regularly, and I drank unfiltered water my mother's husband had collected from a local spring (and I was the only person who did in the house). Either of which could have also been the source.

PS- something about this entire case seems wrong.

 

[The Snark]

Do I dare reply to this?
The thing is..... This disease is VERY VERY easily treatable... I mean, SERIOUSLY easily treatable with antibiotics. The issue is that it's not so easily identifiable. They even thought it could have been rocky mountain spotted fever at the time. It's a rare disease....

Most bacterial infections are effectively treated before the actual bacteria is identified, if it ever is. Typically, once a bacteria sample is taken it takes 7 to 10 days to culture and identify. In the meantime they will be treating the patient by reasoned assumptions using a braod spectrum AB that will probably cover the bases. Once the bacteria is identified they will usually switch to a narrow spectrum AB that targets the organism.

As example, I had an infected puncture wound on my hand. The infection was very angry. They put me on Flagyl and Augmentin IV and hospitalized me as cellulitus developed. 7 days later I was released from the hospital and continued the IV at home. On the 10th day the lab IDed the bacteria, P Multocida, and they switched me to Ancef for another 10 days.

poichedrat, Lingering after effects are a beetch, 1st degree, aren't they? What AB did they use?

 

[pouchedrat]

I just want to know how it progressed THAT fast. I am speaking as someone with personal experience with RBF and a history of a weaker immune system. Also had epiglottitis as a child, and a few other things I've been hospitalized for and have scars as a result. Epiglottitis progressed fast, within hours, and was misdiagnosed until I collapsed and stopped breathing, and they had to do an emergency trachiotomy. RBF did not.

 

[The Snark]

I just want to know how it progressed THAT fast. I am speaking as someone with personal experience with RBF and a history of a weaker immune system. Also had epiglottitis as a child, and a few other things I've been hospitalized for and have scars as a result. Epiglottitis progressed fast, within hours, and was misdiagnosed until I collapsed and stopped breathing, and they had to do an emergency trachiotomy. RBF did not.

That was the entire point of my post of three scenarios. Whether the infection progressed unusually doesn't matter. It is the lawyer presenting a medical authority's testimony in the best fashion at the correct time during a court hearing. Find a doctor (unimpeachable except by another doctor with establishable greater expertise) to state feasibility and that's that.

 

[skar]

I would like to know why the rat bit the child ?? Further more why they bought a rat that would bite ??
Also is there evidence that the illness was definitely caused by the rat or circumstance.?
I've had pet rats as far back as I can remember and I still have rats that frequently play with kids.
This event is definitely unfortunate and sad; I just hate to see one of the best pets a child can have to
get even more of a bad reputation.
I don't want to think how horrible it is to lose a child to anything. So I also understand blame or
seeking retribution of some kind.