People do crazy things just to try to get ahead and beat the system!

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Here is a couple of people that think they can get ahead and beat the system!
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28293702&ni...trictor-into-us&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-2


Jose

 

[Mike41793]

Lol wow. Certainly not the first time something like that has happened, and certainly won't be the last lol

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[The Snark]

Sadly, around here that sort of thing happens all the time. The issue is exacerbated by dozens of corrupt officials and politicians. One way responsible people can help restrict these practices is by getting the real low down on where the animals have come from and refusing to deal with suspicious sources.

 

[Silberrücken]

Sadly, around here that sort of thing happens all the time. The issue is exacerbated by dozens of corrupt officials and politicians. One way responsible people can help restrict these practices is by getting the real low down on where the animals have come from and refusing to deal with suspicious sources.

Well said, The Snark... well said.

 

[catfishrod69]

Atleast the guy paid for the snake. He didnt steal it. He had every right to own the snake if he paid for it.

 

[The Snark]

Atleast the guy paid for the snake. He didnt steal it. He had every right to own the snake if he paid for it.

Meaning no offense whatsoever. The guy that was busted here last week with 20 pangolins in his luggage gave that exact same excuse when he demanded they be returned to him. He never crossed a border and bought them at a market frequented by police officers.

 

[catfishrod69]

Well i feel that guy is very lucky for even getting to have one of those awesome mammals even for a short time! Mainly what my point is, is that the government shouldnt be able to say if a snake is legal or illegal to bring into the country. I mean i can understand if someone wants to exploit the snakes only for money. But if the person is getting the snakes and using them to start a captive breeding group, to keep the species going, then they have every right to. Its kind of along the same thing as zoos saying that a certain tiger is almost extinct in the wild, but they have some in zoos and are trying to breed them to keep the species alive. Well then personal enthusiasts have every right to do the same thing too. Some species might be able to be saved from going extinct if people can breed them in captivity. Even already extinct species could have been saved if they would have been captive bred. Like say that dodo bird. Would have been better to collect a group and start captive breeding, instead of whiping the whole species off the earth.

And no offense taken at all!

Meaning no offense whatsoever. The guy that was busted here last week with 20 pangolins in his luggage gave that exact same excuse when he demanded they be returned to him. He never crossed a border and bought them at a market frequented by police officers.

 

[Najakeeper]

Well i feel that guy is very lucky for even getting to have one of those awesome mammals even for a short time! Mainly what my point is, is that the government shouldnt be able to say if a snake is legal or illegal to bring into the country. I mean i can understand if someone wants to exploit the snakes only for money. But if the person is getting the snakes and using them to start a captive breeding group, to keep the species going, then they have every right to. Its kind of along the same thing as zoos saying that a certain tiger is almost extinct in the wild, but they have some in zoos and are trying to breed them to keep the species alive. Well then personal enthusiasts have every right to do the same thing too. Some species might be able to be saved from going extinct if people can breed them in captivity. Even already extinct species could have been saved if they would have been captive bred. Like say that dodo bird. Would have been better to collect a group and start captive breeding, instead of whiping the whole species off the earth.

And no offense taken at all!

Agree and disagree at the same time.

I agree that some importing/exporting laws on animals are unreasonable and deter captive propagation of animals for the survival of the species. I think governments and individual keepers should find a middle way here. Governments can start regulated captive breeding programs with hobbyist in exchange of lighter import/export laws and find a constructive solution.

I disagree about this specific case. There is no conservation motivation here. The snake is a genetic abnormality, it isn't something that brings in any conservation value. The whole motivation here is to bring in a new morph and makes 10s of thousands from hets even after 1st breeding and make much more later on. Multiple laws were broken to make some decent cash and they should pay the consequences for it.

 

[The Snark]

V See my signature V

 

[catfishrod69]

I totally understand, and agree with your second paragraph. Only bad thing about governments trying to regulate something, is its a bunch of people that dont understand or care. I know you keep hot snakes. Now if your government were to ban hot snakes, wouldnt that be completely wrong? Here in Ohio, we recently had a hot snake ban. They seem to think those types of snakes are too dangerous to own. Unfotunately it all boils down to them not making money from the hobby. Cars are a million times more dangerous than snakes, but the governments make a killing from them. But i do understand what you mean how the guy should see consequences for what he did. Personally i dont give a crap if a snake glows in the dark, and can lay golden eggs. Its still not worth 10s of thousands of dollars .

Agree and disagree at the same time.

I agree that some importing/exporting laws on animals are unreasonable and deter captive propagation of animals for the survival of the species. I think governments and individual keepers should find a middle way here. Governments can start regulated captive breeding programs with hobbyist in exchange of lighter import/export laws and find a constructive solution.

I disagree about this specific case. There is no conservation motivation here. The snake is a genetic abnormality, it isn't something that brings in any conservation value. The whole motivation here is to bring in a new morph and makes 10s of thousands from hets even after 1st breeding and make much more later on. Multiple laws were broken to make some decent cash and they should pay the consequences for it.

 

[The Snark]

Laws protecting people from themselves are asinine. But laws protecting animals from people are necessary. However, the people who make the laws are, as a general rule, motivated by money and are rarely qualified to tell anyone else what to do about anything. The heading of this topic is People do crazy things just to try to get ahead and beat the system! That pretty much sums up the average politician so don't expect a heck of a lot of sensible animal protection laws forthcoming from that front.
So what is the solution? Extinction, except for our toys, food sources and what is very very convenient to protect. If there is a grey area in this protection gig, the animal is always on the side that looses.

 

[RzezniksRunAway]

Agree and disagree at the same time.

I agree that some importing/exporting laws on animals are unreasonable and deter captive propagation of animals for the survival of the species. I think governments and individual keepers should find a middle way here. Governments can start regulated captive breeding programs with hobbyist in exchange of lighter import/export laws and find a constructive solution.

I disagree about this specific case. There is no conservation motivation here. The snake is a genetic abnormality, it isn't something that brings in any conservation value. The whole motivation here is to bring in a new morph and makes 10s of thousands from hets even after 1st breeding and make much more later on. Multiple laws were broken to make some decent cash and they should pay the consequences for it.

This whole thing irritates me even more because of the proposed listing of Boa sp. on the Lacey act. I understand the draw of such an abnormal animal, but doing things that threaten the hobby as a whole is unforgivable. I know that some big names have been involved in smuggling, but now is not the time to be doing something so stupid. It makes me wonder if they even attempted to go through proper channels. Proper channels would obviously alert other people that you are now in possession of an animal that is rare, but this whole secretive don't reveal the morph until it happens thing with snakes is getting out of hand. Smuggling to essentially prevent your competitors from seeing that you have a new gene is detrimental to everyone. The draw of money seems to mean more than the legal ability to keep these animals at this point.

 

[The Snark]

Okay, please, everyone, LISTEN UP!
Yes, these laws encroach on certain personal freedoms which some of us find regrettable/repulsive/repugnant. Granted. A given. Got that? HOWEVER, look at the other end of the same spectrum. AK47's vs African elephants. Powerful pesticides lacing watering holes because the herbivores encroach on farm lands and on and on. Some people can be gigantic flaming anal orifices and yes, the responsible ones are the ones who so often pay the price.
BUT FOR THE SAKE OF THE GREAT GRACKLE, the laws cannot differentiate between to conservationist and the exploiter. Therefore you inevitably get these overly protective laws. Just consider the alternatives, annihilation, total depredation and so on. The sleazy crowd is going to try and find ways to cheat the system and only iron fist laws give the regulators and law enforcement crowd the muscle to stop them.
GOT IT??

 

[RzezniksRunAway]

http://thereptilereport.com/jeremy-stone-indicted/

An update from earlier today.

 

[ArachnidSentinl]

So, if I understand the reports correctly (and I'm sure there's information being omitted), it boils down to this guy just not having the correct export/import paperwork (and falsely declaring origin). I can't speak to the specifics of exporting from Brazil/Guyana, but if one were purchasing an "investment animal" (and I loathe the term) that was potentially going to earn that individual several tens of thousands of dollars in return, why wouldn't the guy just take the time and money to ensure that it was lawful? Why take the risk if the return was so great? Am I missing something here, or was this simply a case of someone trying to save on export/import fees?

 

[The Snark]

Okay, let's sum this up. Jeremy Stone is charged with conspiracy. Please understand conspiracy if you don't fully grasp what it is. He allegedly undertook deliberate acts to avoid or circumvent various laws and statutes regarding endangered species. The actual possession of the animal and his intents on breeding and sales, while relevant, is not the sole issue. Conspiracy is a criminal act unto itself.

Read the real info: http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/news/2014/01-08B.html

Additionally, in a matter such as this, citing commercial ventures, whether they be accolades, condemnation or stricture, should be viewed with a great amount of skepticism.

 

[viper69]

This guy was an idiot. IF the boa is as rare and valuable as it is, he could afford to pay all the customs necessary and MAKE back that money and MORE. Sounds like a guy that was, as usual, scamming the system, CHEAP GREEDY MORONS. Throw him in prison and his sister

 

[myrmecophile]

Stone is a smuggler and thief, pure and simple. The point of origin for the snake was Brazil, he would never have gotten an export for that snake so he paid a zoo official to illegally export the snake to a country which had more liberal export laws. They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. The only people I feel sorry for are the people that bought offspring of this snake on the assumption the young were legal.