Pairing without drumming?

[Sana]

I have a pair of mature G. pulchripes that have me a bit confounded. They are living in enclosures side by side. My male is roaming all over the place and the female has been being stuffed with crickets. Yet nobody's drumming. I came through the house earlier and stopped to look in on them. They were both on the sides of the enclosures that face each other, up against the lids, side by side. Are they actually purposefully seeking each other out or am I trying to apply human logic to spiders? I haven't read anything in my searches here about anyone attempting to pair when the tarantulas aren't drumming and being successful. Does anybody know if all individuals drum, or is there a successful pairing without drumming out there that I'm not finding?

 

[mmfh]

I've only paired my G. porteri but there was no drumming. A little bit of "looking" and a little bit of "touching" then it was a go. She laid eggs, but that is another story. Have you tried putting some of their webbing in with each other?

 

[louise f]

You can pair the T`s without having them drumming first. When i mated my C.darlingi, the male just jumped at the female and they mated.
It turned out good. But i am not sure with the Pulchripes. But i guess it must be the same.

 

[sdsnybny]

All three of my G. porteri females and the MM did no drumming and went straight to business.

 

[Poec54]

I'm nervous when I don't see courtship on both sides. I've had males killed in a variety of species. The most male-tolerant as a group are arboreals. Some of the most aggressive to males are NW terrestrials. If you introduce them, hover overhead with something to immediately pry them apart. Though even then that's not always enough to save him. Sometimes a female will instantly put her fangs thru his carapace, pre or post insertion.

 

[Sana]

I've only paired my G. porteri but there was no drumming. A little bit of "looking" and a little bit of "touching" then it was a go. She laid eggs, but that is another story. Have you tried putting some of their webbing in with each other?

I did a variation of the web swapping last night. My girl has been here for a couple weeks and hasn't webbed. She hasn't even left me a strand of feeding mat, though she's calm (no stress poses), seems to be settling in, and eating. I've been in the process for the last few days of trying to make sure she's fed to exploding. I took some moss strands (dry and purely decorative, it's a pulchripes after all) that she has been sitting on while she's eating and gave those to him. I gave her some of his web. No drumming yet.

I'm nervous when I don't see courtship on both sides. I've had males killed in a variety of species. The most male-tolerant as a group are arboreals. Some of the most aggressive to males are NW terrestrials. If you introduce them, hover overhead with something to immediately pry them apart. Though even then that's not always enough to save him. Sometimes a female will instantly put her fangs thru his carapace, pre or post insertion.

This was what I was worried about. I don't want to rush the process, get my poor male killed, and end up without a sac. I've heard you say before the NW terrestrials are more aggressive towards males. I'm not absolutely convinced of my ability to rescue him if this goes wrong. These two are my first pairing. The only indication of courtship that I know of is drumming and vibrating, are there any others that I'm not aware of?

 

[Poec54]

This was what I was worried about. I don't want to rush the process, get my poor male killed, and end up without a sac. I've heard you say before the NW terrestrials are more aggressive towards males. I'm not absolutely convinced of my ability to rescue him if this goes wrong. These two are my first pairing. The only indication of courtship that I know of is drumming and vibrating, are there any others that I'm not aware of?

Sometimes they'll pair without courtship, but that's usually when a wandering male accidently runs into the female, and has to do something. Those can results in successful insertions; they can also end up in a fight and an injured or dead male.

After having lost some males over the years, my personal rule is to take the male out if both aren't courting in 15 or 20 minutes. Sometimes the male gets worked up in the transfer and can't focus on mating; sometimes he's just not interested. Maybe he can sense if the female's not going to be receptive (lack of pheromones). Sometimes females simply ignore the male as best they can. Other times they lay in wait and nail him when he gets close. And then there's those ladies that put their fangs thru his carapace as soon as he's finished with insertion. Most pairings end with a live male, as long as he's not left unsupervised.

The only males I leave in overnight are OW arboreals; put him in after dark, take him out the next morning. If he's going to do anything, it'll happen then. Extra nights together just increase the likely hood of his death.

 

[Haksilence]

When I paired my g. SP. Northern gold's the male hadn't been drumming in his enclosure it wasn't until I took the lids iff and let him wander over that courtship started, as soon as he hit her substrate drumming started like mad

 

[Poec54]

When I paired my g. SP. Northern gold's the male hadn't been drumming in his enclosure it wasn't until I took the lids iff and let him wander over that courtship started, as soon as he hit her substrate drumming started like mad

Females give off pheromones so males can locate them, but in the typical spider room there's the captive scents of females of various species, which must be confusing, along with many other household smells. It seems that the male is usually the most stimulated to initiate courtship when he touches the female's silk; then he knows for certain he's in the right spot.

 

[Haksilence]

Females give off pheromones so males can locate them, but in the typical spider room there's the captive scents of females of various species, which must be confusing, along with many other household smells. It seems that the male is usually the most stimulated to initiate courtship when he touches the female's silk; then he knows for certain he's in the right spot.

Exactly!

 

[Sana]

I'm going to give them a couple more days before I open the enclosures and let him go investigating. Since I just did the silk swapping theory I'll take a little time to see if he starts drumming before I try without.

 

[Haksilence]

I'm going to give them a couple more days before I open the enclosures and let him go investigating. Since I just did the silk swapping theory I'll take a little time to see if he starts drumming before I try without.

What you can do is to let him explore the far side of the females enclosure, just to see if he's responsive. And go from there, that way you can always send him back to his enclosure before the female wanders over. Think of it as a scouting mission

 

[Sana]

Houston we have drumming! He's finally joined my plan. And of course I pitched her a cricket to make sure that she really was full and she's not. She's got about five of them in her mouth at the moment. Sigh. Be a couple days anyway I guess.

 

[Haksilence]

Houston we have drumming! He's finally joined my plan. And of course I pitched her a cricket to make sure that she really was full and she's not. She's got about five of them in her mouth at the moment. Sigh. Be a couple days anyway I guess.

Before I pair I usually toss two super worms at the female. That's usually more than enough to fill them up.

Unless we are talking about acanthoscuria in which case you would have to prep them a 24oz porterhouse with an apatizer and dessert to even come close to filling them up.

 

[Poec54]

What you can do is to let him explore the far side of the females enclosure, just to see if he's responsive.

Of course that's half of the equation. The female has to be receptive or at least cooperative, or nothing's going to happen, at least nothing good. I've had eager males that repeatedly tried to get a female in the mood, and without her active consent, many are afraid to get fully into position, as that requires being directly beneath her fangs. They'll try and back off, try and back off. They know they're totally vulnerable once their palps are inserted; they're 'hooked' and not able to pull away as fast. Some males want active courtship from her or they give up and walk away (sometimes without ever making contact), others will settle for her to stop resisting. Since females are bigger and stronger, males can't just force things if she won't comply. She has to stand up; sometimes she won't. Sometimes she'll stand up, but that's as far as she'll go. Once she's standing, the male has to get into position under her and bend her backwards at an extreme angle to open up her slit for insertion. Some females draw the line at that point. Even with a perfect pairing, it seems like the final bend is painful and snaps the female out of her romantic trance. She'll usually start squirming. It's like: 'What am I doing? Who is this guy?' What happens next depends on the species and the individuals. Most often males makes a quick exit, sometimes running frantically away in total fear. In the few more male-tolerant genera (usually arboreal), he may stay close and both remain calm.

A few matings to illustrate what can happen:
- 3 Poec females, each a different species, as soon as the male was put in her cage, they ran out of their retreat, across the cage and instantly killed the male, before he could start courtship. They've never run out after prey that fast. This genus is one of the most male-tolerant.
- Everything quick and smooth, by the book. Immediately after insertion the female puts her fangs thru his carapace and eats the male. Happened with B vagans and H gigas.
- 5 A ezendami females, 2 males. Over the course of a month I got the girls paired up. Everything fine until the last one: female enticed out of her retreat by the male's persistent courting and quickly kills him before he can do anything. Caught her on a bad day.
- Genic female very eager and receptive, consumed by passion. Male gets under her and into position then backs away a number of times. I'm thinking he's just too skittish, especially considering that she's begging for a date. What could go wrong? Finally he goes all the way and puts his palps in, the split second he pulls them out she gives him a bear hug and puts her fangs into his carapace; she held so tight I couldn't pry her off. Poor guy, then I understood his hesitation. He knew he once he went in he wasn't coming out alive.