Orchid Mantis sexing

[denk758]

Hey,

Ive got an orchid mantis which should be l3 by now. Ive heard that you can sex them by the color on their back.
Female should be green.
I think it is a female but im unsure, please help me identifiy if it is already possible to.

Greetings and thanks for the help

 

[Inverts4life1]

I think is best to wait until I4 to look at the necklace. You can count the number of abdominal segments though, males have 8 and females have 6

 

[Major 78]

This pic is very vague, not good quality at all. You shouldn't be sexing it at L3 unless you have a really good camera. You can get a definite sex by L5. I think it's a female, not suse...

 

[Major 78]

I think is best to wait until I4 to look at the necklace. You can count the number of abdominal segments though, males have 8 and females have 6

Not with orchids! Females have 5, males have six. Here's guide for everyone for sexing orchids. What I said is basically the Sam as the guide said, you can't get a definite sex till L5! That collar? That doesn't show up till L4, so no way your mantis is L3. I have an L4 and its collar has changed color a couple times, so WAIT UNTILL L5!!!

 

[Inverts4life1]

View attachment 296314

Not with orchids! Females have 5, males have six. Here's guide for everyone for sexing orchids. What I said is basically the Sam as the guide said, you can't get a definite sex till L5! That collar? That doesn't show up till L4, so no way your mantis is L3. I have an L4 and its collar has changed color a couple times, so WAIT UNTILL L5!!!

Unfortunately that chart seems to be miscounting the segments, It's 8 for males and 6 for females for all mantids though it can be difficult to see for many smaller compact species.

 

[Major 78]

Unfortunately that chart seems to be miscounting the segments, It's 8 for males and 6 for females for all mantids though it can be difficult to see for many smaller compact species.

Miscount? Miscount?! The segments are VERY clearly labeled. Can you not see that? Take another quick look at the chart. Explain to me how the hell you can see 8 segments? I dunno who told you that ALL mantids have 6 (Females) 8 (Males) but they misinformed you. Check mantidforum.net, everyone there will tell you otherwise for orchids. This chart is the golden standard for sexing orchids, it's very well known and has been thoroughly examined by many experts, all stating that it's is in fact, (no shocker) correct. While the 8 & 6 segments thing may be true for some mantids, it's not the case AT ALL for orchids. Do your research before you go about giving misinformation buddy.

 

[Sarkhan42]

Miscount? Miscount?! The segments are VERY clearly labeled. Can you not see that? Take another quick look at the chart. Explain to me how the hell you can see 8 segments? I dunno who told you that ALL mantids have 6 (Females) 8 (Males) but they misinformed you. Check mantidforum.net, everyone there will tell you otherwise for orchids. This chart is the golden standard for sexing orchids, it's very well known and has been thoroughly examined by many experts, all stating that it's is in fact, (no shocker) correct. While the 8 & 6 segments thing may be true for some mantids, it's not the case AT ALL for orchids. Do your research before you go about giving misinformation buddy.

You’re working off of a LOT of misinformation. One, that chart DOES in fact not count a sixth segment on the female(below the bend), and is missing two segments on the male(one at the tip, one below the bend), likely due to the angling of the abdomen in this species. All mantids follow the 6-8 rule.
Also, the collar appears reliable at 5th instar, but they can be sexed reliably at 4th instar using the segments method.

Source: Undergraduate senior in entomology, also having raised mantids for years.

 

[Major 78]

You’re working off of a LOT of misinformation. One, that chart DOES in fact not count a sixth segment on the female(below the bend), and is missing two segments on the male(one at the tip, one below the bend), likely due to the angling of the abdomen in this species. All mantids follow the 6-8 rule.
Also, the collar appears at 5th instar, but they can be sexed reliably at 4th instar using the segments method.

Source: Undergraduate senior in entomology, also having raised mantids for years.

Thank you. You at least explained how I was wrong. Informing me where the segments I miscounted were located. Also, my L4 already has a collar, it could have been sold at the wrong instar but who knows. I apologize for misinforming everyone. Was just stating what I had heard from several sources.

 

[Inverts4life1]

It's cool, we're all good

 

[denk758]

This pic is very vague, not good quality at all. You shouldn't be sexing it at L3 unless you have a really good camera. You can get a definite sex by L5. I think it's a female, not suse...

haha i knoow my camera is bad, but i thought i'd give it a try

 

[denk758]

Hey,

Ive got an orchid mantis which should be l3 by now. Ive heard that you can sex them by the color on their back.
Female should be green.
I think it is a female but im unsure, please help me identifiy if it is already possible to.

Greetings and thanks for the help

Thanks for all the discussing.
I guess i am just not patient enough thats why i posted this altough i knew you can not surely sex it

 

[denk758]

View attachment 296314

Not with orchids! Females have 5, males have six. Here's guide for everyone for sexing orchids. What I said is basically the Sam as the guide said, you can't get a definite sex till L5! That collar? That doesn't show up till L4, so no way your mantis is L3. I have an L4 and its collar has changed color a couple times, so WAIT UNTILL L5!!!

So you think my mantis is already l4? I bought it online and it could be possible that im wrong

 

[denk758]

He/She moulted recently and boom it changed color to brown, just as you guys said. Here is another pic

 

[Sarkhan42]

Thank you. You at least explained how I was wrong. Informing me where the segments I miscounted were located. Also, my L4 already has a collar, it could have been sold at the wrong instar but who knows. I apologize for misinforming everyone. Was just stating what I had heard from several sources.

Just saw that you responded to this before my edit- I was agreeing with you about the collar they appear at L4 but aren't reliable for sexing until L5.

 

[KevinsWither]

Female from your most recent photo.