Omothymus schiodtei and Ornithoctoninae sp. valhalla Theory

[Steaminpies]

For those of you unfamiliar, this new species was discovered back in 2016 and is apparently the first arboreal found in Thailand. I’ve been researching Ornithoctoninae in particular recently and have had a thought for a while now. What if Omothymus schioedtei and this new tarantula to the hobby, Ornithoctoninae sp. valhalla, are the same species? The reason for this being I’ve seen several photos and even videos showing specimens of Omothymus schioedtei which don’t resemble the usual. They have an emerald green carapace, black legs/abdomen with faint tiger striping showing through, and are covered in reddish setae. Far from what I’d imagined an Omothymus schioedtei to look like. This happens to be the exact description of the Ornithoctoninae sp. valhalla as well. Very interesting when you consider Malaysia and Thailand are right next to each other, sharing a border. Could there possibly be different color forms of the Omothymus schioedtei? For instance, suppose there’s a variety resembling the so called Ornithoctoninae sp. valhalla in northern peninsular Malaysia extending into southern Thailand. Meaning this new and rare species is actually another color form of the Omothymus schioedtei. Thoughts? I know the Ornithoctoninae have been a mess and given everything I’ve gathered it seems very plausible.

 

[syndicate]

Its surely possible that there is different color forms or regional variants out there. Species with a larger distribution range can often vary in color and sizes.
I cant say if sp."Valhalla" is a different form of schioedtei or not but I have seen darker forms of schioedtei in photos. Below is a link for a darker variant via Rick Wests site.

Omothymus schioedtei Thorell, 1891, female [post molt dark variant], West Malaysia - Tarantulas, Bird Spiders - Rick West, Arachnologist

m.birdspiders.com

I believe this one was often thought to be Cyriopagopus thorelli in the past.
-Chris

 

[Olan]

Could definitely be variants of the same species. But should not be interbred regardless. So having separate names is good.

 

[Liquifin]

There could be a regional variant as a hypothesis, but until a scientific update is done, I suggest keeping the theory at bay so people don't start causing a mess with the idea of hybrids. I really wish someone went and cleaned up all and everyone single Asian tarantula out there as there is a lot of work that could be done for the Asian genus' and species of tarantula for sure.

 

[Steaminpies]

Well it would turn out my theory was correct. Prior to posting I was scrolling through Facebook posts by TarantulaShop.eu of the valhalla, those behind its discovery and introduction to the hobby. Well, I happened to be doing the same today and realized I had previously missed something. The captions under a few posts described the tarantula as Omothymus “valhalla” schioedtei. So there we go, mystery solved, folks.

 

[Liquifin]

Well it would turn out my theory was correct. Prior to posting I was scrolling through Facebook posts by TarantulaShop.eu of the valhalla, those behind its discovery and introduction to the hobby. Well, I happened to be doing the same today and realized I had previously missed something. The captions under a few posts described the tarantula as Omothymus “valhalla” schioedtei. So there we go, mystery solved, folks.

That doesn't solve anything. If anything, it just caused more confusion. Is there a scientific paper/research posted that clarifies this? If not, then I don't believe it as it would then apply as an equivalent that any bob, joe, or somebody just said that.

 

[Steaminpies]

That doesn't solve anything. If anything, it just caused more confusion. Is there a scientific paper/research posted that clarifies this? If not, then I don't believe it as it would then apply as an equivalent that any bob, joe, or somebody just said that.

No, there’s no scientific paper of any kind regarding this tarantula. That’s why I already referred to it as Ornithoctoninae sp. valhalla. If it was described/published we wouldn’t need to use the subfamily in place of the genus for its scientific name . To your second point, I somewhat agree. The lovely folks over at TarantulaShop.eu are no arachnologists, but they’re also by no means any average joe in the hobby

 

[Liquifin]

The lovely folks over at TarantulaShop.eu are no arachnologists, but they’re also by no means any average joe in the hobby

While it is true that they're not the average joe, it doesn't mean there always right as there are many times they messed up as well. Look at the Hysterocrates genus back a few years ago and see what a horrible mess of hybrids are all around EU. I wouldn't mind taking the idea of O. "Valhalla" schioedtei, but I would take it with skepticism for sure so there won't be another Hysterocrates nightmare if you know what I'm talking about.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

While it is true that they're not the average joe, it doesn't mean there always right as there are many times they messed up as well. Look at the Hysterocrates genus back a few years ago and see what a horrible mess of hybrids are all around EU. I wouldn't mind taking the idea of O. "Valhalla" schioedtei, but I would take it with skepticism for sure so there won't be another Hysterocrates nightmare if you know what I'm talking about.

Regarding hybrids in the hobby. Using your own line of reasoning, you wouldn't be able to prove any species of Hysterocrates in the pet hobby are hybrids. All you are doing is repeating the statements made by others you feel are competent. For any species to be identified to the taxonomic rank of species, you need a well documented species description to compare a specimen with. All species of Hysterocrates known to science, except H. elephantiasis which isn't in the hobby, do not have adequate species descriptions to make a reliable ID. So if you can't make a reliable species level identification of the parents, you can't confirm or deny that the offspring from a successful pairing are hybrids.

 

[Liquifin]

Regarding hybrids in the hobby. Using your own line of reasoning, you wouldn't be able to prove any species of Hysterocrates in the pet hobby are hybrids. All you are doing is repeating the statements made by others you feel are competent. For any species to be identified to the taxonomic rank of species, you need a well documented species description to compare a specimen with. All species of Hysterocrates known to science, except H. elephantiasis which isn't in the hobby, do not have adequate species descriptions to make a reliable ID. So if you can't make a reliable species level identification of the parents, you can't confirm or deny that the offspring from a successful pairing are hybrids.

Fair point.

 

[Matt Man]

look at all the changes that have happened in avicularia. Multiple species being consolidated to morphs of 1. And this is a genus that isn't "New", so I am guessing it will be years before they have a decent grasp of Ornithoctoninae. Starting with separate species names and consolidating is pretty common and yes, better to stop people from messing.