Ok so I really need your guys' help wih this one.

[Rain_Flower]

So my boyfriend thinks it's a good idea to start raising rats to feed to the animals instead of crickets. I have tried many times to explain to him that rats/pinkies are not a good staple diet but he just refuses to believe me.

The animals he wants to feed these to are a chameleon, bearded dragon, water dragon, and mountain dragon. And he wants to feed them as their main diet, not occasionally.

His reasoning for not listening to me is because the people at "the pet store know best and I only know about spiders". Oh and because "they are full of calcium and protien".

So what I need is for you guys to give me as many legit reasons to why this is not a good idea. The more detailed the better. In your replies if you could include links to where you got the information, why you are qualified to know/say the information (not completely necissary but if you've raised reptiles for like 15 yrs or whatever that would be good to mention, or if you've taken classes in those such things).

Any input is greatly appreciated. I plan to show this to him after I get some good replies going, so the more posts the better!

Thank you all very much for helping too!

 

[Hedorah99]

So my boyfriend thinks it's a good idea to start raising rats to feed to the animals instead of crickets. I have tried many times to explain to him that rats/pinkies are not a good staple diet but he just refuses to believe me.

The animals he wants to feed these to are a chmeleon, bearded dragon, water dragon, and mountain dragon. And he wants to feed them as their main diet, not occasionally.

His reasoning for not listening to me is because the people at "the pet store know best and I only know about spiders". Oh and because "they are full of calcium and protien".

So what I need is for you guys to give me as many legit reasons to why this is not a good idea. The more detailed the better. In your replies if you could include links to where you got the information, why you are qualified to know/say the information (not completely necissary but if you've raised reptiles for like 15 yrs or whatever that would be good to mention, or if you've taken classes in those such things).

Any input is greatly appreciated. I plan to show this to him after I get some good replies going, so the more posts the better!

Thank you all very much for helping too!

All i can say is none of those animals live solely on rodent prey. That should be a good reason not to make them a staple of the diet. And i may be wrong as I know little about chameleons, but I am fairly sure they eat only insects.

 

[Rain_Flower]

All i can say is none of those animals live solely on rodent prey. That should be a good reason not to make them a staple of the diet. And i may be wrong as I know little about chameleons, but I am fairly sure they eat only insects.

Reply number one! Oh I also told him that yes, he could feed them a pinkie every now and then if he wanted, but staple diet of rodents is a no no.

Thanks for the reply

 

[lostriverdoc]

I raise (25+) scorps,(9) T's , (5) rattlesnakes, (2) corns, (1) BP, and (4) kingsnakes, and an adult male bearded dragon. The only animals that get rodents are the snakes. That is their natural food. The BD has only once shown interest in a pinkie and did eat one. I offered another one to him one other time and he refused it, but always accepts crickets and b. dubia's.Insects are tarantulas and scorpions and dragons natural food and they don't need anything else other than water to live a long healthy life.

 

[AzJohn]

Chameleons in particular are allmost exclusivly insectivorous. The really big ones will eat birds in the wild but only very rarely. Plus rats are a lot work. If you don't clean their cages daily they'll stink.

 

[JayzunBoget]

Luckily for your boyfriends herps, his program will never quite get off the ground. The logistics involved in producing the right number of prey items at the right pace will be mind-boggling. And on top of that several of his herps will not be able to eat them whole and will probably show no interest
That said, I would recommend that your boyfriend do some research about reptile diets. There is soooo much information out there about what you SHOULD offer those specific reptiles, that that should keep him busy and pointed in the right direction. Coming up with negative proofs takes more time, but I can share with you some that I have heard that may pertain to your situation.
I have been working as a reptile caretaker and specialist for about 10 years now (yes, I am both old and a loser). In that time I have learned alot more from talking to my customers than I have ever taught, and that IS saying something. In that time I have heard that baby rats are not particularly appropriate for adult animals. For instance, growing baby Boa constrictors need the high level of fatty deposits that the baby rat has for the same reason, a period of rapid growth. Adult animals kept on that same diet, like say a cornsnake of similar size to previously mentioned Boa, can get fatty deposits in some unusual places, among wich can be the eye itself obstructing vision and ultimately make hunting impossible.
I was told about the dangers of adult cornsnakes and baby rats by Rob Cook, cornsnake breeder extraordinair.

 

[Rain_Flower]

Thank you everyone for your posts so far! I did tell him to look up their diets, he said he did and that I'm wrong. I love him you know, but he's stubborn as hell....

 

[suicidepill]

from about 7 years experiance and 1 class of herpetology in biology, i can tell you that this isn't a good idea and could cause an early death and an unhealthy life.
pinkies are too high in fat and that gives your reptiles a chance at fatty liver disease. also, the reptiles you have dont eat just that in the wild, they eat alot of insects. i could understand if you had some snakes, but not those.

http://www.house-of-reptiles.com/feederinvertebrates.pdf

 

[Nich]

I know alot of people that raise those herps on rodents.....something has gone wrong with every one. The most sucessfull staple ive seen is Large roaches. Especially with the bearded dragon...those things eat like crazy. If you dont have agarage your whole apt will smell like rodenets, the cleaning is unbelievable, and the actuall cost saving is generally nill withou a very efficient setup. I used to have afew groups of ambilobe panthers, a 40gallon rubbermade housed enough food for all of them with dubia, hissers, and some random local caught sp.

 

[Rich65]

I have been raising and breeding reptiles for the last 20 yrs, snakes, beadeds, geckos, beardeds, taratulas and roaches. I have never seen any good come from feeding in appropriate fodd items. Feeding those lizards pinkie rodents is a death sentence!! Back in the eighties pet stores would tell people that green iguanas could eat canned dog food, sure they would grow fast and get big and die very early usually with some kind of fatty growth or tumors!!
Those lizards are insectivores and are meant to stay that way, The only exception is the bearded which as juveniles are more insectivores becoming more herbivore as they mature.
Don't trust a pet store, ask the people that raise and breed the healthy animals!!!!!!! You wouldn't find the top breeders of any high quality beardeds feeding only a rodent diet, search some care sheets.
Tell your boyfreind he'll have a freezer full of big fat dead lizards.
Sorry to be harsh but maybe he shouldn't have pets if he can't research the care first or listen to suggestions from the majority who do know.

 

[Rich65]

I have been raising and breeding reptiles for the last 20 yrs, snakes, beadeds, geckos, beardeds, taratulas and roaches etc. etc. I have never seen any good come from feeding inappropriate food items. Feeding those lizards pinkie rodents is a death sentence!! Back in the eighties pet stores would tell people that green iguanas could eat canned dog food, sure they would grow fast and get big and die very early usually with some kind of fatty growth or tumors!!
The lizards in question are insectivores and are meant to stay that way, The only exception is the bearded which as juveniles are more insectivores becoming more herbivore as they mature.
Don't trust a pet store, ask the people that raise and breed the healthy animals!!!!!!! You wouldn't find the top breeders of any high quality beardeds feeding only a rodent diet, search some care sheets.
Tell your boyfreind he'll have a freezer full of big fat dead lizards.
Sorry to be harsh but maybe he shouldn't have pets if he can't research the care first or listen to suggestions from the majority who do know.

 

[Rich65]

I have been raising and breeding reptiles for the last 20 yrs, snakes, beadeds, geckos, beardeds, taratulas and roaches etc. etc. I have never seen any good come from feeding inappropriate food items. Feeding those lizards pinkie rodents is a death sentence!! Back in the eighties pet stores would tell people that green iguanas could eat canned dog food, sure they would grow fast and get big and die very early usually with some kind of fatty growth or tumors!!
The lizards in question are insectivores and are meant to stay that way, The only exception is the bearded which as juveniles are more insectivores becoming more herbivore as they mature.
Don't trust a pet store, ask the people that raise and breed the healthy animals!!!!!!! You wouldn't find the top breeders of any high quality beardeds feeding only a rodent diet, search some care sheets.
Tell your boyfreind he'll have a freezer full of big fat dead lizards.
Sorry to be harsh but maybe he shouldn't have pets if he can't research the care first or listen to suggestions from the majority who do know.

 

[Rich65]

I have been raising and breeding reptiles for the last 20 yrs, snakes, beadeds, geckos, beardeds, taratulas and roaches etc. etc. I have never seen any good come from feeding inappropriate food items. Feeding those lizards pinkie rodents is a death sentence!! Back in the eighties pet stores would tell people that green iguanas could eat canned dog food, sure they would grow fast and get big and die very early usually with some kind of fatty growth or tumors!!
The lizards in question are insectivores and are meant to stay that way, The only exception is the bearded which as juveniles are more insectivores becoming more herbivore as they mature.
Don't trust a pet store, ask the people that raise and breed the healthy animals!!!!!!! You wouldn't find the top breeders of any high quality beardeds feeding only a rodent diet, search some care sheets.
Tell your boyfreind he'll have a freezer full of big fat dead lizards.
Sorry to be harsh but maybe he shouldn't have pets if he can't research the care first or listen to suggestions from the majority who do know.

 

[Hedorah99]

Reply number one! Oh I also told him that yes, he could feed them a pinkie every now and then if he wanted, but staple diet of rodents is a no no.

Thanks for the reply

Also, tell your boyfriend to watch Supersize Me, because he is pretty much going to do the exact same thing to all the pets he "loves". And by the way, is this at all nutritional or is he just going to get his jollies at watching them eat mice? I only ask because breeding rats is so much harder and costly than breeding roaches or even mealie bugs.

 

[Hedorah99]

Sorry, double post.

 

[Rain_Flower]

No he actually thinks it will be more nutritoinal because they are "full of calcium and protien". And i've started a roach colony already too so I really don't see the need for rats, and I really don't want them. Granted the colony is only about 50 right now, but it will be well on its way soon enough (I saw one with the little ootheca thing...).

 

[Thrasher]

if you can't change his mind, and you tried. I would just let him be, soon or later he will learn it the hard way.

 

[Rain_Flower]

No he actually thinks it will be more nutritional because "they are full of calcium and protien". And I have a roach colonly starting up too, not very large at the moment but its getting there.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Your boyfriend apparently knows nothing about animal nutrition if he thinks that insectivores or primarily insectivorious species can survive and thrive on a 100% mammalian protien diet (esp. one with such poor variety as "just rats." Has he never heard of the negative effects of too much fat, protien, and calcium in an animal's diet? It is just as harmful as a deficiency. If he insists upon doing this, his animals will die, period. Unpleasantly at that, from fatty liver, renal disease, hypercalcemia, and other painful, lingering conditions. Frankly, he sounds like your typical macho-jerk uneducated casual reptile owner who thinks it is cool to have big, fat herps that eat little fuzzy animals, regardless of if it is healthy to them or not. Have the moron talk to a herp vet if he won't listen to common sense; anyone with an ounce of knowledge about nutrition in reptiles will tell him he is dead wrong.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Your boyfriend apparently knows nothing about animal nutrition if he thinks that insectivores or primarily insectivorious species can survive and thrive on a 100% mammalian protien diet (esp. one with such poor variety as "just rats." Has he never heard of the negative effects of too much fat, protien, and calcium in an animal's diet? It is just as harmful as a deficiency. If he insists upon doing this, his animals will die, period. Unpleasantly at that, from fatty liver, renal disease, hypercalcemia, and other painful, lingering conditions.
If he needs qualifications, how is this. I am a certified animal nutrition counselor. I have worked in zoos specifically in diet prep for years. I have experience with all of the species he has mentioned except for the mountain dragon, and can say this:
-Chamelons are insectivores. Ask a herpetologist. Their wild diet consists almost entirely of insects.
- Bearded dragons are omnivores. Like all omnivores, the KEY to their health is a wide variety of foods. Their diet should consist of large quantities of plant matter, insects, and the very occasional vertebrate such as a rodent or small lizard.
-Water Dragons are omnivores. See previous.

Notice how none of these are CARNIVORES, which would be the only kind of animal that would do remotely well on a primarily mammal protien diet.