Office pacman

[pandinus]

hey, sorry to not use the search function, but i'm a little bit pressed for time right now so couldnt use it properly. Okay, my fiance works at an apartment complex and the kids that live there found a frog the other day (spring peeper or cricket frog, etc) and wanted to keep it, so she called and asked me and i told her that this frog has a very short lifespan and is usually unable to adapt to captivity, but told her i could find her a substitute. she has always enjoyed pacman frogs, and asked about having one in there instead. i liked this idea because they are relatively low matainence and easy to care for, but my only problem is that i'm not veryy sure they could accomodate a ten gallon tank. i'm not very experienced on their growth rate, but most of the ones available here are all silver dollar sized. is it a matter of years or months in terms of growth? i'm pretty sure that i wouldnt be able to keep anything over a medium KK in that office, would it outgrow this quickly? and is there a way to minimize its growth rate to a slower pace without malnourishing or cramping the little guy?





John

 

[Ghostblade]

You could always start it out in a medium KK or a 5 gallon but they tend to grow at a fairly quick rate and anywhere from 6 months-1 year they're considered adults so would probably need moved up to a 10 gallon.

 

[pandinus]

right, wahat i wanted to know was if there is anyway to lengthen that process as much as possible without causing damage to the animal, IE: cooler temperatures, more modest feeding scheduel, etc.

 

[Ritzman]

They are not considered adults at 6-12 months.
An adult pacman is fine in a 10gal tank. Yes if you keep the temp cooler, your frog will eat less, thus slowing its growth rate. You will also see it less because it will always be trying to estivate.
Just keep it at regular temps, feed it normally. As juvies, they eat more than as adults.

 

[pandinus]

absolutely not wanting to do anything to harm it. i just wanted to make sure that if i got one for her it wouldnt be something that would have to be rehoused in only a few months. white's frogs were another one i looked at but they seem like they may be a bit more difficult to mantain in such a setup, even though they are smaller






John

 

[kitty_b]

i'd recommend a different frog, like a chubby frog. they don't get nearly as big and still have awesome appetites.

 

[Pacmaster]

A well-taken-care-of pacman frog should be near, if not at, its adult size by 1 yr.
The only way to stunt this growth is to not take good care of it . . .

If space is an issue, I think a pacman frog would in fact be fine in a 5g tank, as the are fairly sedentary(dont move much).
As long as all care parameters are met in the correct way.

(basics)
10g tank
heatsource
substrate (= to 2-3x the depth of frog at rest)
water

Keep the frog at around 80-85 degrees, humidity around 60-80%, fairly moist substrate, daily misting, feed it as much as it will eat at one sitting(does NOT need to eat everyday), treat for chytrid if not already done, enjoy . . .

Keep in mind, these frogs in Nature spend roughly 6-9 months deep underground in a form of hibernation caslled aestivation, they usually will only come up when it rains, and thats just to scarf down whatever food they find(including each other) and to breed.
If their [relatively easy} care requirements are not sufficiently met, you will never see the frog because it will try to protect itself till the cage conditions improve, by perpetually eastivating.
This in itself could cause many problems associated with never eating, like MBD(a very real threat to such a fast-growing, heavy-boned frog), and other health-related issues.

Pacman frogs ARE pretty easy to care for, if you know what your doing . . .
I have around 60-70 of them right now . . .

 

[Memento]

You can't really prolong the growth rate of horned or pyxie frogs without doing some harm to them. I had many come into my care that were in pretty bad shape after people tried doing this.

For a low-maintenance, small space-tolerant, resilient anuran, I suggest a firebelly toad (FBT). They're cheap, easy to obtain, easy to feed, temperature-tolerant, hardy and fairly active. While not ideal, a single one should do fine in a KK if it's cared for well (I've even heard of some truckers keeping them as dashboard pets in KKs, and the animals remained perfectly healthy for years). They can be kept either as terrestrials or as semi-aquatics.

EDIT: Another small-space anuran is the dwarf clawed frog, which would live happily in a small/medium KK - but it's aquatic.

 

[rustym3talh3ad]

as im sure some of you know a bit more than i do about horned frogs please dont blast me, but we keep our frogs here at home in the exoterra 12x12x12 cubes with no problem what so ever. use sphag moss as ur substrate (as its easier for them to push aside and doesnt stick to them as bad as coco fiber). we have full grown adults in these cubes and they are perfectly fine due to the fact (as mentioned) they dont move barely at all. if u whole heartedly wanted to, go with the 18 cube and that will be MORE than enuff for them.

 

[pandinus]

thanks for the help everyone, amy go another way, as i suggested FB toads to her in the first place. the main thing i wasnt sure of with these guys was whether or not they could be kept in a smaller container, which i was pretty sure they could. lol. also the temp requirements ive read on these are all over the map with most sources saying between 68-80F. may go with a taller setup and do a white's. thanks everyone



John

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

I agree with Pacmaster that a pac could be perfectly happy in a 5 gallon tank. I started mine in a five gallon, and after a year when he obtained full growth, upgraded him to a ten gallon. And I've yet to see him use any more of the space that he would have used in the five gallon. Keep in mind that mine is a male, perhaps a good-sized female would prefer larger accommodations than five gallons. I don't really think it would make a difference, though.

In my opinion, the real difference in which size to use is how you want to approach cage decor. A five gallon is more suitable for the minimalist design, where with a ten gallon, you have the room to get a little bit fancier if you wish. I find my ten gallon to be more visually appealing with the plants and additional furnishings, even though the frog does not utilize any of the space.

Bottom line is that I think if a person has the space, he might as well keep his frog in a ten gallon, but I wouldn't throw off keeping one solely based on the reason of being limited to a five gallon tank.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

White's need a lot of space, like 25+ gallons. If they can't have a 10 they definitely can't have a White's.

 

[Pacmaster]

Tim, you have a great point here about the cage deco . . .

The simple fact of the matter is that you will see only the frogs head usually, and there will be long periods where it burrows down and is completely out of sight(can be from days to weeks to months long).

So designing a terrarium that is visually pleasing to folks who view it, will in a small way make up for the shyness of the frog.

I have a bunch of beautifully planted display tanks that I put frogs in when the weather is warm, otherwise they all live in a rack system I made from sterelite drawers.
Those drawers are very plain, having only substrate and small leaf piles.

So just as a recap . . .
5g tank is fine for froglet to juvie, small adults, larger adults with no deco-clutter
10g IDEAL for all stages with possibilty to deseign pretty terrarium

Here is one solution I came up with when trying to fit more tanks . . .
The pacman frogs, on the whole, arent jumpers so height is not too much of a concern . . .
I got a few 5g long tanks, they have the same footprint as a 10g, but only half as tall.
The low profile makes them easier to fit on shelves, and most come with screen lids.
I have kept large adults in those tanks with no problems, I just put a heavy layer of dead leaves and it (imo) makes them feel like they truly are in leaf-litter and low shrubs with the screen directly over them like that.


Another important factor to consider is that with the smaller regular-shaped 5g tanks, one will need to clean and/or replace the substrate much more frequently as the frog will have nowhere to dig that hasnt been contaminated by its own feces and urine . . . dunno if most folks have seen a pacmans turd or not, but lemme tell ya, they are huge!

 

[Memento]

White's need a lot of space, like 25+ gallons. If they can't have a 10 they definitely can't have a White's.

I agree with this. I've kept many White's, and they require much more space than people think, certainly more than a 10g. The only arboreal frogs I would suggest for a small enclosure (5g minimum, stood on end) would be the tiny ones such as reed or hourglass frogs. I'm not sure I'd recommend them for an office desk, though .