Odd behavior from Spalerosophis diadema

[the toe cutter]

First off the other day I had them out in the snake room teaching a friend
of mine how to handle fast and extremely defensive snakes properly
before he moves up to handling venomous since he really wants a C
atrox. So anyway I noticed first that they were displaying
side-winding movement which I have never heard of in these particular
snakes before. They are from North Africa and the Arabian Penninsula
so this was kind of not so amazing, but interesting behavior none the
less especially seeing how they were on carpet in my nice and cool 75F
house. Then I asked my friend to capture one of the smaller males and
he went toward it and immediately it started to hiss very loudly and
strike repeatedly at him. This is very normal for them! Well as I was
watching from across the room(approx. 12ft away) the other female that
was by my feet raised its head and looked over to where all the other
commotion was coming from, and I kid you not started to smell the air,
make a 90degree turn from its original direction, and head slowly
right to where the other distressed snake was. I asked Anthony to hang
on and just sit there for a moment so I could see what the hell was
going on here. He bent down and was striked at repeatedly by the
initial Diadem he was going to grab. As the 2nd snake got about 3ft
from Anthony, it started to hiss at him and then proceeded to get into
a defensive posture and actually started to strike at him
while moving closer and closer! I was amazed at what was going on and
asked Anthony to take a step back, so he did and they both came at
striking and hissing and all. So we tried the same
exercise with the other 2 larger individuals I have and we got them out of
the enclosures and onto the floor and they both darted over to the
same corner of the room, also displaying sidewinding locomotion, and we proceeded over to them and I moved my hand downward to elicit a response from the female and ofcourse she started to hiss and strike, and display the general bad temper associated with this species. Then the male who seemed fairly calm or atleast semi-placid, and initially undaunted raised his head and looked at the other Diadem snakes then seemed to look where she was looking(my hand), flicked his tongue a bit and started to hiss! Then like clockwork they both assumed defensive positions and started to strike and move forward together. Wierdest thing I have ever seen in all the years of keeping various colubrids as well as hots, so I think I am going to give them a few days and harass them again to see what will happen, for scientific purposes ofcourse! Maybe I can get some video of it this weekend.

 

[groovyspider]

i guess ill come over and be the one to get conered again :wall:. it was truly a sight because as said earlier me and the toe cutter(marty) where handling snakes as im new to venomous only havin a A.c.l and im wanting to get more... so he pulled out a few of the larger hognoses and one thats kinda a jerk, then after one time of baby sittin his guys i rembered the diadems i said hey how about them so we let them out as well and noticed the other snakes where not to fawn of them or maybe it just seemed like that to me and i had handled everything we had out in the room so i figured hey ima hold the dia's and as i tried to pick it up gently and safley of course it began hissing and throwing a temper tantrum so i kinda backed off and i looked to the corner after marty said something and what surprised me is the fact that the second snake approached me as if trying to defend its mate maybe there is some kinda of protection they have grown and adapted too?? it was as if snake2 was tryin to get me away from snake1 and both were hissing and striking at me it was a real diffrent exp. and also after putting them up i had to walk back by the cage they contiuned to hiss and coil up who knows maybe they watch each others back in the wild as well ... or maybe i secrete a pheromone that naturally upsets snakes.... has anyone else had any similar behaviors?

 

[dtknow]

Be neat to set up a rigorous experiment...so many variables but if it is really some way of communication(communal defense behavior) I don't think it has been recorded.

Are diadems always like that?Too bad they are quite striking.

 

[pitbulllady]

This is a species I'd really love to keep, but unfortunately I just do not see them offered like they once were. I had an opportunity to purchase an adult pair a few years ago at a reptile show, and they were actually quite handleable by me, but got very agitated if anyone else approached them while I was handling them. I don't even remember why I passed them up-probably the price. They were stunningly gorgeous orange-and-black adults. It never ceases to amaze me how LOUD these guys are when they hiss; it's even louder than a large Pituophis, even though they are fairly slender snakes, reminding me more of Coachwhips.

Have you ever experienced a bite from these? The year before I nearly bought a pair of them, a guy got tagged by a juvenile specimen at a reptile show, a fellow I know quite well, and he had a nasty reaction to it. He'd been bitten by a Cottonmouth about a year or two prior to that, so I don't know if that had anything to do with his reaction to the Diadem bite, but he had some strong neurological symptoms that lasted almost two weeks.

pitbulllady

 

[the toe cutter]

@PBL,
I have been bitten by the small male and it was nothing more than a little tingling and redness. As for unexplored toxicity I'd be far more worried about being tagged by my Psammophis mossambicus and P sibilans. I have seen some pics that look worse than Copperhead bites! Though none have even attempted to bite, I am still cautious mainly because I do not want to end up like Karl Schmidt! And at the last Colombia Repticon there was someone selling them for 17$ea. Some nice looking ones too, they may still have them at the Charleston Repticon this weekend. You will have to beat me to them though!

@dtknow,
Yup they are the most defensive snakes I have ever come across! The P murinus of African colubrids if you will. There will need to be more behavioral testing and more controls put into place.

My larger specimens are starting to go through their ontogenic color change right now and the male is looking like he will end up pretty dark in coloration. I always wanted to get these snakes and when the opportunity arose I snatched up 2 pair. I really like that as babies they all generally look exactly the same, but after 3-6yrs they go through a color and pattern change that is one of the most amazing in the Reptile kingdom. And each and every individual is not just a little different, but they are all completely different in pattern and color. One specimen can be anywahere from black to orange to red to tan and in any combination of pattern from speckled to striped to tiger banded all naturally. As with all of the other African colubrids they are severly under-rated species.

 

[pitbulllady]

@PBL,
I have been bitten by the small male and it was nothing more than a little tingling and redness. As for unexplored toxicity I'd be far more worried about being tagged by my Psammophis mossambicus and P sibilans. I have seen some pics that look worse than Copperhead bites! Though none have even attempted to bite, I am still cautious mainly because I do not want to end up like Karl Schmidt! And at the last Colombia Repticon there was someone selling them for 17$ea. Some nice looking ones too, they may still have them at the Charleston Repticon this weekend. You will have to beat me to them though!

@dtknow,
Yup they are the most defensive snakes I have ever come across! The P murinus of African colubrids if you will. There will need to be more behavioral testing and more controls put into place.

My larger specimens are starting to go through their ontogenic color change right now and the male is looking like he will end up pretty dark in coloration. I always wanted to get these snakes and when the opportunity arose I snatched up 2 pair. I really like that as babies they all generally look exactly the same, but after 3-6yrs they go through a color and pattern change that is one of the most amazing in the Reptile kingdom. And each and every individual is not just a little different, but they are all completely different in pattern and color. One specimen can be anywahere from black to orange to red to tan and in any combination of pattern from speckled to striped to tiger banded all naturally. As with all of the other African colubrids they are severly under-rated species.

I agree about the African Colubrids for the most part being highly underrated, and most snake keepers just aren't very aware of them at all. There are still a lot of species from various parts of African that have not been imported at all.
Spalerosophis diadema is a species that I used to see a lot, but seldom see offered anymore. I don't know if the guy who got tagged several years ago had an unusual allergic reaction or not, since his symptoms weren't typical of allergic reactions but definitely neurological in nature, and I also don't know what other underlying conditions he might have had that enhanced the effects of the bite. I've been bitten by a big male Boiga dendrophila who got a good "chew" before I could remove him, and the worst I experienced was some tingling and itching around the bite and a dull persistent headache rather similar to a hangover, lol, but I've talked to other people who were literally unable to get out of bed for four-five days following a bite from a Mangrove. One of my friends who operates the Edisto Island Serpentarium(go see it if you haven't, since it's practically in your backyard) has experienced pretty nasty reactions to Garter bites. There's just so many variables when it comes to rear-fanged snake envenomations, and a lot seems to hinge on the body chemistry of the person bitten, and I guess to some extent, the person's ability to tolerate discomfort or pain.

I'm still debating whether to go to the Charleston show or not. I WANT very badly to go, but I just hit the Myrtle Beach show and sorta wiped out my disposable income since there were two snakes there I'd been looking for, a huge Tiawan Beauty and a red-phase FL Green Water Snake, and of course, I had to win a bid on something at the USARK auction, so I'm not sure how at this point I can still pay bills and make it to Charleston. I just got back in from McClellanville around four this morning from a trip down to pick up a truckload of Mud Minnows for my fish eaters, as well, so I'm sure if I want to see I-26 again this soon!

pitbulllady

 

[groovyspider]

When i got Tagged i did allow the snake to chew on my left pinky simply because i was a little nervous to move for fear of hurting the snake it let go all i felt was a slight tingling around the knuckle... but as well it might not have bothered me as much being at bout 240Lbs and medically sound :?...

 

[kevin91172]

First off the other day I had them out in the snake room teaching a friend
of mine how to handle fast and extremely defensive snakes properly
before he moves up to handling venomous since he really wants a C
atrox. So anyway I noticed first that they were displaying
side-winding movement which I have never heard of in these particular
snakes before. They are from North Africa and the Arabian Penninsula
so this was kind of not so amazing, but interesting behavior none the
less especially seeing how they were on carpet in my nice and cool 75F
house. Then I asked my friend to capture one of the smaller males and
he went toward it and immediately it started to hiss very loudly and
strike repeatedly at him. This is very normal for them! Well as I was
watching from across the room(approx. 12ft away) the other female that
was by my feet raised its head and looked over to where all the other
commotion was coming from, and I kid you not started to smell the air,
make a 90degree turn from its original direction, and head slowly
right to where the other distressed snake was. I asked Anthony to hang
on and just sit there for a moment so I could see what the hell was
going on here. He bent down and was striked at repeatedly by the
initial Diadem he was going to grab. As the 2nd snake got about 3ft
from Anthony, it started to hiss at him and then proceeded to get into
a defensive posture and actually started to strike at him
while moving closer and closer! I was amazed at what was going on and
asked Anthony to take a step back, so he did and they both came at
striking and hissing and all. So we tried the same
exercise with the other 2 larger individuals I have and we got them out of
the enclosures and onto the floor and they both darted over to the
same corner of the room, also displaying sidewinding locomotion, and we proceeded over to them and I moved my hand downward to elicit a response from the female and ofcourse she started to hiss and strike, and display the general bad temper associated with this species. Then the male who seemed fairly calm or atleast semi-placid, and initially undaunted raised his head and looked at the other Diadem snakes then seemed to look where she was looking(my hand), flicked his tongue a bit and started to hiss! Then like clockwork they both assumed defensive positions and started to strike and move forward together. Wierdest thing I have ever seen in all the years of keeping various colubrids as well as hots, so I think I am going to give them a few days and harass them again to see what will happen, for scientific purposes ofcourse! Maybe I can get some video of it this weekend.

I would like to see that video! It seems It might be something I would like to handle for the experience I love defensive snakes!

Dumb question,well not really,in my book there is no dumb questions...but could you see eye movement in the snake?to see where it s aiming for?