New York Assembly Bill A4611

[emartinm28]

Hello everyone, not sure if this has been posted before, but as of February 4th a bill has been introduced in the New York State senate that would ban the shipment of all mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians to, within, or from the state of New York. Thankfully our precious inverts aren’t affected by this bill but I just wanted to get it out there for us herp lovers to read and, for those of you who live here, oppose.
here’s the bill
https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/A4611

 

[goliathusdavid]

WHAT????? How on EARTH are they expecting to enforce this? Also people can still cross state lines and come back with whatever they want? I'll be very interested to see if it even passes. I'm all for stricter regulations on the wildlife trade but that seems more than a little extreme... Very brief bill for such massive implications.

 

[jrh3]

does anyone know if it would include tarantulas? Hopefully it will get shut down.

ALERT: New York shipping ban | USARK - United States Association of Reptile Keepers

usark.org

 

[goliathusdavid]

Does not include tarantulas, as no inverts are listed.

 

[emartinm28]

I’m not sure what kind of support this has in the state senate, but not only would this have implications for reptile and amphibian keepers but also for agriculture. The western part of the state relies heavily on agriculture and this will put farmers in distress. Also appreciate the “animal rights activist” who introduced this bill not thinking that inverts are worthy of their misguided protection...

 

[Matts inverts]

How could they do this. I’m not from there but it doesn’t sound the best because I know of some snake breeders from New York and I don’t know how they would ship.

 

[basin79]

Hello everyone, not sure if this has been posted before, but as of February 4th a bill has been introduced in the New York State senate that would ban the shipment of all mammals, birds, reptiles, and amphibians to, within, or from the state of New York. Thankfully our precious inverts aren’t affected by this bill but I just wanted to get it out there for us herp lovers to read and, for those of you who live here, oppose.
here’s the bill
https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2021/A4611

Does this mean verts can't be posted in a box or privately couriered?

Here in the UK (yes a much, much smaller country) it's been like that for years. And that's how it should be. Whilst a tarantula can live days/weeks in the post no problem (temperature forgiving) a vertebrate can't.

 

[emartinm28]

Does this mean verts can't be posted in a box or privately couriered?

Here in the UK (yes a much, much smaller country) it's been like that for years. And that's how it should be. Whilst a tarantula can live days/weeks in the post no problem (temperature forgiving) a vertebrate can't.

I believe that’s what it means, here all breeders ship only using priority overnight so the animal normally is picked up around 5 pm and delivered (IME) around 8 am temperatures permitting. How do people get their herps in the UK??

 

[basin79]

I believe that’s what it means, here all breeders ship only using priority overnight so the animal normally is picked up around 5 pm and delivered (IME) around 8 am temperatures permitting. How do people get their herps in the UK??

Private courier. Of course the UK is tiny but yes. If ordering from a shop and you can't get there to pick up you get a specialist courier. Their vans are heated. The animal will be picked up and either delivered the same day or they board them and deliver when they're doing a run.

Obviously being a courier the animal isn't in a system. They're not bounced around. And unless the courier doesn't have an accident there's no danger of any hold ups or problems.

 

[Liquifin]

I know this sounds like a dumb question, but by postal services does that include Fedex and UPS? Sounds like it's targeting USPS specifically, but I'm no expert on whether this includes private company services like Fedex or not. It also didn't include invertebrates specifically, so I guess invertebrates are still going to be around New York. But I guess New York is starting to restrict animals so I wonder how much change it'll actually cause in the long run.

EDIT- Okay I re-read the thing and it said other mail carriers so I guess I just found my answer.

 

[goliathusdavid]

FedEx and UPS are included. They include "private companies" in postal mail. Frankly however, I think the likelihood of this passing is quite low. And, if it did pass, I don't think it would actually stop the shipments (including the many illegal ones). We definitely need a better system of regulation for herps and inverts alike (frankly we need more regulation and enforcement in some areas) but not like this.

 

[Matts inverts]

Are they going to ban reptiles like Florida is trying to do or are they trying to just stop the shipping.

 

[emartinm28]

Are they going to ban reptiles like Florida is trying to do or are they trying to just stop the shipping.

For now it’s just shipping, though within the city of New York there’s already a ban on many animals including all T’s and all pythons, this is the first time to my knowledge that this kind of thing is spreading statewide

 

[goliathusdavid]

We also need to consider the fact that New York is one of the major epicenters of the illegal wildlife trade in the US. Obviously there is Texas, Ohio, and Florida, but on the East Coast most stuff is coming through NYC. That may be part of the rationale behind this bill, not that it would be effective in stopping any of it.

 

[Hardus nameous]

Just because it says private company doesn't necessarily mean all package companies; check how the state defines the terms.

 

[goliathusdavid]

Just because it says private company doesn't necessarily mean all package companies; check how the state defines the terms.

Directly from the bill: "It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, partnership or corporation to mail or offer for mailing a live animal by postal mail into or within the state of New York or from the state of New York to points outside the state of New York."
That includes all package companies. They mean everybody.

 

[viper69]

These people need to get a life or die of cancer.

 

[Hardus nameous]

Directly from the bill: "It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, partnership or corporation to mail or offer for mailing a live animal by postal mail into or within the state of New York or from the state of New York to points outside the state of New York."
That includes all package companies. They mean everybody.

Yeah, I did some quick digging of definitions and unfortunately it looks like you're right.

On the other hand it didn't say anything about individual cells. So wouldn't it be legal to mail enough cells to form a cat in the configuration of a cat? Plus if you throw in a cesium atom the cat is technically neither live or dead from when the box is sealed until it's opened.

 

[The Snark]

This legislation reminds me of some whizbang politicians wanted to pass a law requiring seat belts on motorcycles. Reminiscent of certain states that require functional windshield wipers but don't require windshields.

 

[Dandrobates]

If you look over the state assembly website you will see the justification for the bill in addition to the bill’s wording. Essentially, the bill was introduced because a shipment of live chicks sent through the United States postal service died in transit due to postal delays over the past summer. Furthermore, based on the wording, it looks like the bill would only affect the US postal service and not private carriers despite their being causally mentioned. Also I believe it’s always been illegal to ship tarantulas through the USPS anyway which may be why they are not included in the bill. For all intents and purposes this bill does seem to be the product of an animal rights agenda (look at the wording in the justification). However the wording is murky when it comes to companies like FEDEX and UPS since they are not clearly mentioned as being prohibited from shipping live animals. Most vendors don’t ship USPS anyway so I don’t see much of a big change here. To sum it all up, the USPS could not handle delivering a live cargo in time and allowed the animals to perish due to its ineptitude. As a result responsible hobbyist are being punished for something we had nothing to do with.