New to the boards - please evaluate my choices - especially H mac as a first non-avic arboreal

[LisaD]

Hi guys,

Please let me know what you think of my choices, especially of H mac as my first non-Avic arboreal tarantula. I know this is a long post, sorry. I have done a lot of searching, research, talking to experienced keepers. Please let me know what you think. If you don't want to read all this, my question is, given my experience and interest in a nice displaying, hardy arboreal, is H mac a good choice?

Background and history
I am new to the forums, but have a fair bit of tarantula and other spider experience - mostly in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm a biologist, and have kept a lot of exotics, including monitor lizards, parrots, marine animals (I have hundreds of gallons of saltwater at home). Doing research next week, actually, with widows and recluses, have field collected wolf spiders, widows and others.

Ts successfully kept in the past:

A avicularia
B albopilosum
B vagans
Chr cyanopubescens
Cyc fasciatum
G rosea (of course)
P murinus (OBT)

I gave away/sold/traded most of my spiders around 2003 because I was busy with work, kids and other animal hobbies. Now I'm ready to jump back in.

I recently received a few slings, and have others on the way (all slings or unsexed juv). The larges is 2.5" (B klaasi) - the rest are all smaller.

Current list - Terrestrials - I'm pretty happy with my terrestrial choices:
~B klaasi - tarantulas.com - I like its looks and I like Brachys (1)
~G pulchra - tarantulas.com - heard so much good about it, looks/docility (1)
~C cyanopubescens - tarantulas.com - one of my favorites (1)
~A brocklehurtsi - looking for good display terrestrial, from T Gearhart (1)
~N coloratovillosus - look great, from Kenthebugguy, want to breed these (2)
~Euathlus "blue" - from Kenthebugguy - impressive spiders, want to breed these (4)

Current list - Arboreal:
~Heteroscodra maculata - from kenthebugguy

I may order another one from the boards, as well as A. metallica or A. versicolor

So here's my MAIN question - is H mac the best choice for me, considering I have a fair bit of experience? While I've kept avics, I don't have experience with anything really fast and aggressive, unless you count P murinus (OBT).

Reading through the forums, there was some conflicting information on strength of venom and defensiveness.

I chose H mac spider for the following reasons:

Hardy - I want the display in my office at work, which can be a little on the cool, dry side. I wasn't sure how easily I could provide the high heat and humidity combined with good ventilation some of the other arboreals I considered require. After it grows up, T will be in an Exo Terra 12 x 12 x 18" enclosure (may divide for two subadults).

Good looking display spider - I realize there are some that hide less, but this is an awesome looking T.

Relative temperament - I am the most unsure here, have gotten very mixed information from various sources. From what I have read here and elsewhere, while it is v defensive w toxic venom, it seems H mac could be easier going than Stromatopelma calceata (good looking, hardy, equally or more toxic) and Psalmopoeus sp (good looking, slightly less medically significant venom, warmer/more humid requirements). So of those three groups, I picked H mac.

What do you think? Was that a crazy choice? I don't feel ready for pokies yet, though would like to keep regalis eventually as a first pokie. Also, would love to keep Singapore blue. And for terrestrials, eventually a Haplo or two. But need to be sure I can handle the H mac first... I have kids at home, and don't want to keep anything too defensive/venomous at home for now. Hence, the future arboreal display in my office. Luckily, I have a large, private office.

TIA for any comments or suggestions. I love the site, hope to be able to contribute one day. Sorry again about the loooong post.

 

[Henry Kane]

honestly, it seems as though you've taken all the right things into consideration. You also have experience with fast and feisty spiders. Given your background in biology, grasping the potential consequences of a mishap to yourself, or the spider is fathomable. I'd say go for it.

Keep in mind that there are always exceptions to the general reputation of any T's attitude. That said, and in my experience, I've found H mac's to be pretty easy to keep and deal with. I don't think I'd even compare them to Stromato's just in shear hyper-spazziness (<--of stromatos) alone. Actually, I've never ever seen Pterinochilus murinus-level attitudes from the handful of Heterscodras I've kept.

Not really much else can be said that you have already thought of yourself. They're fast, they like to run up, probably don't want one to tag ya . With the same attentive respect you'd probably treat any T with though, they're something to behold and rewarding to raise and keep. I see no reason to deny yourself the pleasure.

Good luck and post pics if you decide to add one!

Oh yeah, congrats on approaching this the proper way! You're doing your research, exercising patience, and taking all considerable factors into account. That's the way! :clap:

Take care.

 

[nexen]

H.mac is a poor choice for a work environment, IMHO. I'd go with something with less potent venom in case it gets loose. Insurance liability and all that. You are more than ready to keep one though. I'd have no concerns there.

Also I can't speak for all H.macs but mine is a ghost. She's gorgeous, my favorite spider by far, but I rarely get to see her. She made the mother of all web tunnels though so that's a conversation starter.

edit: come to think of it, you might want to rethink bringing a T into work at all. I brought my rose hair in once when it was suffering with DKS. I was taking her to a local T expert after work. One of my coworkers found out about her and he quite literally had a panic attack. Didn't matter that she was a harmless species, tucked away safely in a tupperware container, and dying to boot - he broke out into sweats and couldn't even stay in the room. Severe arachnophobia. Another coworker politely offered to kill her for me (before he even knew she was sick)

Also I found out later that my company policy specifically forbids pet arachnids in the workplace. So there is that.

 

[jbm150]

I was thinking along the same lines as Nexen. As for whether you could handle keeping an H. mac, absolutely. You're fairly experienced, sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, and will approach it with a fair amount of respect.

But if its anything like the one I used to have, unless you work really late nights at the office, you'll hardly ever see it. For the most part, mine wouldn't come out until the lights had been off for several hours. Every once in a while, she'd be out during the day. But very rarely.

You could set up a cool terrarium which will look nice. And with the webbing, it'll be even more intriguing. To actually catch it out and about, a real treat

 

[LisaD]

Guys, thanks for the quick comments, I appreciate it.

I'm actually not too worried about work liability. My office is a "secure" area, so not much human traffic. I will keep the cage locked and do any maintenance/moving in an empty room I can seal off. I work in a small place, there are just five of us, so number of people with potential exposure is low.

I'm going to be working (with all my staff) on an experiment with > 120 (~60 each) widows and recluses soon, and we'll all be handling them. We also work with bedbugs and disease vector mosquitoes. The faint of heart have already been weeded out. Though I agree, maybe look at work as a temporary situation. I don't want to bring it home right away because of the kids. But the H mac I'm getting is a tiny one. It won't be terrarium ready for quite a while.

While I think this is a good choice for me right now, when the time for the next arboreal comes, what would you say is a great exhibiting arboreal? Are Singapore blues out and about? What's the best? Like I said, don't know if I'm ready for pokies yet, and I don't want to keep more than one significantly venomous spider at work at a time, but I can always plan and dream...

I still want something pretty hardy. Our lab (which my office is part of) has stable temps, so when I feel ready to meet the requirements of high temp and humidity, good air flow, I will. I'd also like a spider that, as long as it's not feeling threatened, will be fairly calm - I'd rather have a slow spider that won't hesitate to bite after a warning than one that teleports (which I realize H macs can do). Maybe I'll have to get another P murinus and set it up as a terrestrial. I always liked the one I kept in the 90s - tough as nails, beautiful, attitude. I never took it out of the cage, so it never tried to run. I just never saw it enough. Probably not so different than the H mac.

I like spiders that are out and about, with interesting behavior. Nice color and patterns are a plus, but not the most important. The GBB is about my favorite of the spiders I've kept so far. I've also kept wolf spiders I've field collected, and I like them a lot. So, any suggestions for the future in arboreal keeping?

I've been enjoying youtube vids, especially those by Robc, and a couple whose names I don't recall that seem to be extremely confident and competent handling fast aggressives.

But if its anything like the one I used to have, unless you work really late nights at the office, you'll hardly ever see it.

I have to put in insane night hours all the time, so it may help me get through it!

 

[jbm150]

While I think this is a good choice for me right now, when the time for the next arboreal comes, what would you say is a great exhibiting arboreal? Are Singapore blues out and about? What's the best? Like I said, don't know if I'm ready for pokies yet, and I don't want to keep more than one significantly venomous spider at work at a time, but I can always plan and dream...

Not ready for a pokie? Nonsense. P. regalis. Not as fast as H. mac, mine is out much of the time, beautiful, not defensive at all. Of course, not all may be as laid back. But I think they're pretty easy going for Pokies

 

[ksac3]

I have 2 adult female Singapore blues (Lampropelma violaceopes) that are out all of the time.
my 2 stromatopelma calceatum have extensive webbing and stays in mostly and is VERY photosensitive.i can completely spook it with a flashlight beam.
look at my picture thread

 

[LisaD]

Even though I keep saying I'm not ready for a pokie, I sure do think about them a lot.

The reputation of S calc will make me stay away - I think my H mac will fill that need nicely.

I don't know that I can afford Singapore blues, though robc has nice prices on his babies...

There must be a poll her somewhere of what the serious keepers/enthusiasts (not macho kids that want a scary spider) consider the best all around arboreal. I suspect it is some kind of pokie.

 

[jayefbe]

Given your background with exotics and potentially dangerous spiders, I think you could get ANY tarantula without any issues. Seriously. You are intelligent, and it is clear that you reason through any decision very thoroughly. You should be fine with any tarantula.

Since you want a display enclosure, here's my experience with the relative behavior of OW arboreals.

MOST RECLUSIVE H.mac > Singapore blue > P. irminia > Poecilotheria > P. cambridgei MOST SEEN

I've never owned an S. cal, but from what I've read it sounds even more reclusive than H. macs.

I think the venom of an H.mac is pretty comparable to the strength of a pokie. Given that H.mac's are more skittish and inclined to bite, I'd recommend a pokie over an H.mac for a first time fast and highly venomous owner. If I were to personally make an enclosure for display purposes, I'd go for something like a large Poecilotheria female (rufilata and ornata are huge and very colorful).

 

[paul fleming]

Have an S.cal on order now so can't help there,be here when it warms up in Germany.....let you know when it comes.
If you want a scary pokie,why not get a P.rufilata ?
My H.mac does not move......just hides.

 

[poec_me]

my only problem with my h. mac slings are the fact that they take FOREVER to grow. i have a ~2 in. male that hasnt molted in 4 months and another ~1 in. tht hasnt molted in at least 2. if you want it as a display spider in a big terrarium i wouldnt expect your sling to fill up anything more than a large deli cup for at least a year or two. and i agree about the hiding deal too my 5 in. female never ever ever comes out and her web is too dense to see through its about as good as a pet hole. i at least see my pokies more often then not instead of not at all.

 

[sharpfang]

I agree.....

With the comments on your intelligence........Way to think it through, and look for advice:clap:weighing pros-N-cons.

My H-macs & S. Cals {sm.}are growing well......I only got them, cause many seem to like the species. The mottling on "Big-Macs" is attractive.

I think you are ready for a Pokie though......Maybe, a Miranda or Regalis in a Nice Display tank....with good ventilation, and 50-50 compact light{Not much-heat}, lots of cork bark and a live plant.

Enjoy the Acanthoscurria! and AB

- Jason

 

[LisaD]

Thanks for all the helpful (and nice! ) comments. I'll post back soon and let you know what I got. I'm not a good photographer, but will try posting pictures too.

ksac3, just looked at your picture thread, really nice. Where do you get the bright orange form of OBT? Mine was more rust-colored orange.

 

[LisaD]

Well, made a fast decision. I guess I don't know how to gear up slowly. I had a credit to use with Todd Gearheart. By ordering today, I could have my spiders put into the box with an order coming for work. So I ordered today to save on shipping. He didn't have a P regalis available, so...

I have the following coming (I hope, waiting for final confirmation):

unsexed 2.75" Singapore blue - what I had finally decided on for my other non-avic arboreal. I realize they are a bit cryptic, but what gorgeous spiders!

young ~4" female A. metallica - will make a nice display right now and might be good for a breeding project

unsexed 2" Skeleton (E. murinus) - fascinanting species, has a mix of OW and NW, terrestrial and arboreal traits. And looks cool.

Once some of these grow up, I'll find mates for the ones I want to breed. Decided I can handle the heat and humidity requirements.

Thanks again for all your encouraging comments.

 

[jbm150]

unsexed 2" Skeleton (E. murinus) - fascinanting species, has a mix of OW and NW, terrestrial and arboreal traits. And looks cool.

Arboreal traits? I thought E. murinus was almost an obligate burrower :?

Nice selection of beautiful Ts though

 

[Zoltan]

Ephebopus murinus is a great choice, one of my favorite species/genus.

Arboreal traits? I thought E. murinus was almost an obligate burrower :?

Click here! I don't understand the meaning of "OW and NW traits" though.

 

[jbm150]

Ephebopus murinus is a great choice, one of my favorite species/genus.

Click here! I don't understand the meaning of "OW and NW traits" though.

Huh, learn something new all the time here. They're a beautiful species, thats for sure

 

[Merfolk]

Get Pokies!!!!!

Like everyone said, we would normaly reccomend something else..but you could deal with monitors, you can deal with any spider.

The only advice I could add on and on is to get pokies. Go check Apophis pic threads for some close ups and you'll see that they are living works of art. Compared to H mac, they are giant exhibitionists and the venom is a notch milder. Have fun

 

[LisaD]

Pokie venom is milder than H macs??? I am sooo confused. I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a pokie sometime. Believe me, monitors are a piece of cake, they really are very easy to handle if you show them respect and take the time to read their mood. And they aren't venomous, for the most part. And they are hard to lose in your blankets.

Maybe it was a bit of a stretch to say E. murinus have OW and NW, burrower and terrestrial traits, but read the following from eightlegs.org:

These are the duckbill platypus of tarantulas! They have forelegs that are flattened at the ends like an arboreal species, yet they prefer to burrow. They possess the velvety and smallish rear-ends of baboon spiders, yet are indigenous to the Americas.
The wildest feature is that they do have urticating hairs, but they're on the pedipalps!
The leg striping is similar to a Costa Rican Zebra's (Aphonopelma seemani), but more yellowish. Their legs are black, they have small brown abdomens, and the carapace is coffee colored or golden.
Like most genera in the subfamily Aviculariinae (except the genus Avicularia, ironically), their forelegs are much larger than their hind legs.

 

[jbm150]

Pokie venom is milder than H macs??? I am sooo confused.

So they say. H. macs are supposed to have venom second only to S. cal. Don't know how accurate that really is though.