New Article: Scorpion Illness and Injury

[findi]

Hi All,

Please check out my new article:

Treating Sick and Injured Emperor Scorpions.

Comments and questions appreciated, thanks.

Take Care and Enjoy, Frank

 

[Nanotrev]

I'll be the first to comment that it was a really fun read. It's nice to know there are techniques known now and in the works to saving my favorite species of scorpion should something go wrong.

Human anti-fungal powders have been used with some success on tarantulas, and may be worth trying if the fungus persists.

I really thought the fungal preventative idea was good. I'd like to look more into that myself, or if you had any further information on that to put in another article it would be really cool. I know quite a few desert species have been lost to it. Being told how to identify it is also very handy for newer keepers or those like myself haven't encountered the problem often enough to really know what to look for. I didn't have a chance to save my H. a. pallidus I had because it came with the infection and I wasn't sure what it was until I was too late.

Knowing about limb loss is also nice. I was once misled with that very same scorpion though I don't think it was maliciously done. The male never grew his leg back... especially a month later when he died of the mycosis he came with. Ugh..

There's more I could talk about but I'll go ahead and let other people read it and give feedback too.

In short, I really liked it and it provided some very worthwhile information. I would read articles in the future if you were to make them.

 

[AzJohn]

First if a scorpion loses a leg it wont grow back, it's gone for good. Also if a scorpion is leaking, usually they will heal on their own. Dirt gets in their and the leak is sealed. Any leaks bigger than that are more than likely fatal. I might try a piece of paper towel or tissue to stop the leak. I'm not sure I'd drastically increase the humidity for molting either. Usually the scorpions will have enough moisture on their own, internally. A big increase in humidity is more likely to cause a fungal infection with desert species especially since a scorpion can be in premolt for a long time. I do increase the humidity for baby scorpions but desert species are desrt species regaurdless of size. I'd never cover the tank and increase humidity drastically, more likely to cause other problems especially if left for more than a day or two. Mycosis can appeare fast. Glycerine and water is probably your best bet for softening the old exoskeloton. Really if it's stuck bad their is little you can do. Your best bet is to act quickly and try and remove the old skin, without breaking the new skin, before it dries. Then again doing so is a risk. The scorpion might be doing fine on it's own and our lack of patience could cause a big problem. If it's a stuck leg or claw I let the scorpion try and work things out on it's own, knowing that if it can't I'll have to amputate. I know of a hobbiest who did a great job helping a scorpion out of a bad molt with a dental pick and other tools. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?197230-woouuuwooouuu...-scorpion-operation!

 

[Nanotrev]

First if a scorpion loses a leg it wont grow back, it's gone for good. Also if a scorpion is leaking, usually they will heal on their own. Dirt gets in their and the leak is sealed. Any leaks bigger than that are more than likely fatal. I might try a piece of paper towel or tissue to stop the leak. I'm not sure I'd drastically increase the humidity for molting either. Usually the scorpions will have enough moisture on their own, internally. A big increase in humidity is more likely to cause a fungal infection with desert species especially since a scorpion can be in premolt for a long time. I do increase the humidity for baby scorpions but desert species are desrt species regaurdless of size. I'd never cover the tank and increase humidity drastically, more likely to cause other problems especially if left for more than a day or two. Mycosis can appeare fast. Glycerine and water is probably your best bet for softening the old exoskeloton. Really if it's stuck bad their is little you can do. Your best bet is to act quickly and try and remove the old skin, without breaking the new skin, before it dries. Then again doing so is a risk. The scorpion might be doing fine on it's own and our lack of patience could cause a big problem. If it's a stuck leg or claw I let the scorpion try and work things out on it's own, knowing that if it can't I'll have to amputate. I know of a hobbiest who did a great job helping a scorpion out of a bad molt with a dental pick and other tools. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?197230-woouuuwooouuu...-scorpion-operation!

You sir are amazing. +1

Is there any method that is reliable for controlling and stopping mycosis?

Also-
I may be good at having good ideas and being too stubborn to give up but whenever you people talk on the board like this, I find it very cool to listen to. I'm not trying to suck up, but it just makes me realize how much more there is for me to know. Both of you are a good help to me for posting this information. Helpful people in the hobby keep my enthusiasm at a peak and make it much easier to go about solving my problems.

 

[AzJohn]

Thank you for the kind words, glad to help.

The best way I found to prevent mycosis is to keep the ventalation up. When you water or mist let it dry out completely, before you water again. It's long periods of wet that can cause mycosis. If you mist a tank, then cover it and dont allow good ventalation mycosis can appear fast. When I've noticed mycosis in newly aquired scorpions i just dry them out good. I give them a milk jug lid with water every few days but that's it. After a while back in the tank with whatever caused the problem fixed. The dark spot that we recognize as mycosis will never go away, I think it's kind of like a scar. You can control it's spread and maybe kill the fungus.

 

[Nanotrev]

Are scorpions capable of preventing it themselves if they have a choice of mediums, both slightly damp and dry? I'm sure you've seen in another thread my wishes to breed Scorpio maurus and Hadrurus arizonensis but I'm worried about fungal infections. I'm sure they can with a false-bottom setup that would be carefully monitored. I know I saw someone using a wick on the scorpion forums to leach (not sure if that's the right word to use) water from a covered container of sorts into the substrate in small amounts. For the sake of the topic of this thread, if anyone feels that further contribution to my questions would be getting off-topic feel free to PM me.

 

[Michiel]

"We know nothing about fungal infections in scorpions" is not true. There are several publications about this subject. Fungal infections have been reported in Tityus spp....

 

[findi]

Hi Nanotrev,

Thanks for the kind words and sorry for the delay in responding. As you can see from the various responses, there's a great deal of experimentation going on, with different folks having varying results. Not much written in stone...i.e. legs will sometimes grow back, sometimes not, fungus sometimes responds to ventilation, and so on. Anything you observe and share will be useful.

Desert adapted animals of all types, including inverts, are usually quite susceptible to fungal infections. In the course of my work I've also seen problems in Egyptian tortoises, Whiptailed Lizards and mammals (internal infections) such as fennecs and hyraxes. Ventilation and appropriate temperatures are important. At the Bx Zoo we experimented with oyster shell as a substrate in some tortoise exhibits; it seems not to support fungus growth and is well-worth further investigation.

Thanks for your interest in other scorpion articles. Here is a four-part overview http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatr...vity-–-an-overview-of-popular-species-part-1/ others are linked there or please let me know your interests and I'll try forward some ideas.

Good luck and enjoy, Frank

 

[Michiel]

In your article you state it correct. Sometimes a leg will be partially regenerated, but never a full lost leg. I.e. when you break of the last three leg segments, a tarsus grow directly to the femur....Why is this? Because when scorpions loose limbs while very young, let's say instar 2-3, they may regenerate that limb partially, but when the injury took place while the animal was instar 4-5, it will not. So their is a threshhold, before= partially regeneration, after= no regeneration.
You should research the matter better, you state that there is not much written in stone, and make more generalizing assumptions (we know nothing about fungal infections), but there is enough scientific information to be found on these subjects......trust me

 

[AzJohn]

In your article you state it correct. Sometimes a leg will be partially regenerated, but never a full lost leg. I.e. when you break of the last three leg segments, a tarsus grow directly to the femur....Why is this? Because when scorpions loose limbs while very young, let's say instar 2-3, they may regenerate that limb partially, but when the injury took place while the animal was instar 4-5, it will not. So their is a threshhold, before= partially regeneration, after= no regeneration.
You should research the matter better, you state that there is not much written in stone, and make more generalizing assumptions (we know nothing about fungal infections), but there is enough scientific information to be found on these subjects......trust me

I never heard of even partial regeneration in limbs. Your explanation was very good and was kind of what I was thinking. We know tarantulas which molt through out there life can take 3-4 molts to fully regrow there missing limbs. With scorpions, they just don't have enough molts to regrow much, so why would they put the energy and resoarces into a leg that they really don't need, if it wont ever be fully functional.

 

[Michiel]

Hi John,
Tarantula's, true spiders and also whip spiders have special structures that makes them able to autotomize legs (like in lizards, autotomizing their tail if grabbed by the tail by a predator), so if you pull such a leg, it will always break at the same spot, because it is supposed to break exactly at that spot. This is that special structure. Scorpions lack these structures and are not able to autotomize (from the top of my head), if you pull their legs out, it will bleed.

 

[findi]

My choice of the word "nothing" was obviously a poor one, as I then went on to suggest a possible treatment. I believe I respond to readers politely, and would appreciate the same should you post in the future. "You should" and similar "lecturing" styles of communicating are not appropriate. Thank you.

 

[AzJohn]

My choice of the word "nothing" was obviously a poor one, as I then went on to suggest a possible treatment. I believe I respond to readers politely, and would appreciate the same should you post in the future. "You should" and similar "lecturing" styles of communicating are not appropriate. Thank you.

Why ask for sugestions if you''l just be offended. Really you should research somthing like treating scorpion illness if you want your article to be helpful to hobbiest. All the comments that seem to be bothering you come from experienced keeper with years of learning and knowledge behind what they've said. If they offer sugestions and tell you things to consider it would probably be a good idea to listen.

 

[findi]

I seem to have been unclear....I did not object to content, but rather to the impolite tone of one responder. I acknowledged a poor word choice on my part and, earlier it this thread, highlighted the value of differing experiences and observations. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'll not respond to anything further in this vein. Good luck.