Need answers on substrate mix and if I need to bake topsoil/potting soil

[Fade]

If I use potting soil or organic soil for my substrate mix, do I need to bake it to kill possible parasites? I obviously would only get soil with no additives, chemicals, or fertz. I prefer not to have to bake it though.

I plan to go to my local nursury to get some today so quick answers are appreciated.

I have an adult b.hamorii and a 4 inch b.albo.
I plan on getting a GBB, L.p., and a c.versicolor.

My first try at a mix would be 3:1 ratio of potting soil or topsoil and coco fiber.

What is the difference between potting soil and topsoil?
Which should I choose?

An extra question I have is do I need to rehydrate the substrate if I have an arid species? It isn't for the tarantula but for the substrate. If so, how often and do I just do a corner at a time?

Thanks.

 

[cold blood]

If I use potting soil or organic soil

When you see the word organic on a bag of dirt, its in reference to additives, often manure or other waste products, avoid "organic" labeled top soil.

If I use potting soil or organic soil for my substrate mix, do I need to bake it to kill possible parasites? I

Absolutely positively not! Doing so will open the door to other issues, as now the first things to colonize have it all to themselves.

What is the difference between potting soil and topsoil?
Which should I choose?

Top soil is what you want.

Home depot...less than $2

Topsoil

• cold blood
• Dec 29, 2017
• 2

An extra question I have is do I need to rehydrate the substrate if I have an arid species?

Got me scratching my head here....why would you want to hydrate something, being used n an arid enclosure?

If so, how often and do I just do a corner at a time?

If you need to add moisture to the soil, just pour water in...when it dries, add more water.

Lower humidity in your local area will mean you add more water, more often....high humidity means you add less water less often, but dampening when it dries would apply either way.

 

[Fade]

When you see the word organic on a bag of dirt, its in reference to additives, often manure or other waste products, avoid "organic" labeled top soil.
Absolutely positively not! Doing so will open the door to other issues, as now the first things to colonize have it all to themselves.

Top soil is what you want.

Home depot...less than $2

Topsoil

• cold blood
• Dec 29, 2017
• 2

Got me scratching my head here....why would you want to hydrate something, being used n an arid enclosure?


If you need to add moisture to the soil, just pour water in...when it dries, add more water.

Lower humidity in your local area will mean you add more water, more often....high humidity means you add less water less often, but dampening when it dries would apply either way.

I just bought some topsoil at my local garden store. The ingredients are reed sedge peat and sand. Is it safe? So I don't have to bake it and it's completely safe to use immediately? Thanks again.

 

[Ungoliant]

I just bought some topsoil at my local garden store. The ingredients are reed sedge peat and sand. Is it safe? So I don't have to bake it and it's completely safe to use immediately? Thanks again.

It should be safe as long as it isn't too sandy. (Normally they would mention the inclusion of pesticides or fertilizers to market the product and justify a higher price.)

 

[Brian S]

Can you still get Schultz's Peat Moss? Wally world used to sell it and I used it for xeric to tropical spp. Don't have to do anything to it

 

[Fade]

It should be safe as long as it isn't too sandy. (Normally they would mention the inclusion of pesticides or fertilizers to market the product and justify a higher price.)

It was $5 for a 40 lb bag. Is that expensive and could contain chemicals? I am not gonna bake it but do I need to do the cricket test with it or is it safe to use?

 

[Ungoliant]

It was $5 for a 40 lb bag. Is that expensive and could contain chemicals? I am not gonna bake it but do I need to do the cricket test with it or is it safe to use?

At that price, I would expect that to be safe as long as it doesn't mention any additives (fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, etc.). Often the packaging will recommend it for filling/landscaping.

I used topsoil straight out of the bag with no ill effects.

 

[EDED]

i think hydrate meant,
coco fiber brick being hydrated in order to be used

it is not a bad idea to back the dirt/substrate
or microwave,
only ideal if you have to work with smaller qty.

I have lost several Ts of different species and size post molt from a bad batch of top soil or potting soil etc. I picked a random bag from outside that has been sitting in the sun and rain. I had no idea this could happen but it has happened.
My conclusion was fungal or some sort of mold infecting freshly molted Ts when they are vulnerable or maybe I should say fragile. It made want to study if there is any sort of immune system in arachnids or not.

so nowadays I am very careful selecting those substrate.

like others have said sphagnum peat moss (miracle grow with added fertilizer is okay) or other types should be fine, just dont pick the ones outside that has been soaked in rain and summer heat, yuck.

 

[boina]

it is not a bad idea to back the dirt/substrate

That's actually a really bad idea. Soil usually contains a balanced mix of microscopic organisms, mostly detrivores and beneficial bacteria. Bake it, and you kill all this beneficial microfauna. Instead, the very first thing that arrives will take over, because there is no competition on this wonderful, pristine soil. What do you want to bet that the first thing in a mite egg or a fungal spore? Any kind of sterilization may lead to worse outbreaks of pathogens then you can ever have on un-sterilized soil.

My conclusion was fungal or some sort of mold infecting freshly molted Ts when they are vulnerable or maybe I should say fragile. It made want to study if there is any sort of immune system in arachnids or not.

Tarantulas are immune to mold - a healthy tarantula will never be infected by any kind of environmental mold. There are some very rare and very specific parasitic fungi, but you won't find those in potting soil. And yes, tarantulas have a very well researched immune system.

 

[EDED]

well in that case
why dont you recommend soil from outdoor

the store bought soil should have some sort of flora but i am not sure how you can prove 'balanced' flora ??

what organisms do you need in substrate to be 'balanced" ?



that is why i am saying either zap everything to start with 'sterile' substrate or use vermiculite /clay

or use soil from outdoor (obviously not from your backyard in inner city etc)

i will search for studies on arachnid immune system, thank you for letting me know

 

[cold blood]

As long as pesticides aren't used in the area, outside soil actually works really well (yes, I have used it)....we just tend not to recommend it because, in most places, pesticides/herbicides are just too widespread and pervasive for it to be safe.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

why dont you recommend soil from outdoor

Because it could be contaminated with pesticides/chemicals which are actually a threat to your tarantula's well-being.

If you live in a remote area where pesticides aren't used then it's not a problem.

 

[EDED]

we need to share real experiences. I do not think anybody should be labeled or feel themselves they are new or the word newb. He or She might have vast experiences with other animals be it mammal or invertebrates (or human babies lol). We just need common sense.

there are many brands of soil and substrate for plants in stores and online. It is because of competition and business and money of course. Each bag should have lot# or batch# and own proprietary blend of organic matter for better or best plant growth. Now that means store bought substrate and soil etc are not so called natural (i will stop using these quote marks ' ' haha)
again they are from specific batch with specific requirement each company produces and i am sure there are Quality Control performed before selling.

boina has made interesting posts and information. However i can guarantee none of us will have a tank of T with slime mold spread all over the substrate, mites all over our beloved tarantula and mites all over the tank. Not many of us can tell the difference between harmful fungus (mold is a type of fungus) nor harmful mites or scavenger mites.
i wonder if boina has several ts set up where they are covered in mites and mold all over the place. We call this "practice what we preach"

again we can not ignore all these previous posts and experiences from T keepers of veteran or new hobbyists using predatory mite species to control these other mites.

also to say that is a slime mold (how many different species are there?) and those mites are okay or not is reckless. It's as non specific as you see photo ID of Ts. Yes some are obvious, but what if its a hybrid T with dominant trait hiding recessive traits of morphology?

saying it again, many would agree or find some information useful but will not keep ts covered in mites nor mold in the set up. Have you smelled moldy or set up that has fungus issues? naturally you cringe and i even get a headache. Even if the specific fungus is correctly ID'd I will not watch and let it be. Saying oh its a balanced substrate that i bought from store in a bag lol

I would like to see boina grow a T for at least a year in a conidition that she says its okay. mold and mites galore.
with updates of pics every two months haha

Also wonder if she has treated any Ts that have fungus growth on its body? should i leave it be let the balanced substrate and mites do its job? no. from my experience its deadly. However I have treated Ts with fungus on its body with simple over the counter store bought fungus medicine (athletes foot is caused by???)
Also my story of one specific batch of top soil that has been sitting in the sun and rain killing off NW., OW, old and young meaning non specific to T species,, , and deaths only post molt is something i shared for information purpose, and during the time I had outbreak of fungus gnats as well. hmmm.
And yes I know how to tell the difference between flys and gnats. ALso have sent picture taken by microscope to a curator of museum in California who focuses on these things to confirm. once the substrate was changed no more mysterious deaths. WHy only ts post molt have died? that is my assumption that post molt booklungs and other functions are probably not at the optimum succumbing to whatever the toxins the unknown mold/fungus have produced or possibly infecting the spider directly.

without mentioning which brand because different lots sometimes produce outbreak of mold of specific one kind (if its well balanced how come slime mold dominate in the tank?) when switched to another batch or buy the same brand product at different time period, certain sphagnum moss have been used for years without any issues or changing it. I am saying one brand of your favorite substrate one day will have issues, one day will not when used for T tank set up. "

one batch had nematodes. nematodes are everywhere of course, but back then when my eyes were really good and young lol, i saw nematodes that were a few millimeters in length flicker on top of the soil, as if it was trying to hook onto mobile host. I took the sample to a leading nematode expert in the world supposedly and helped her with PCR for ID at USDA faciilty and luckily I lived very close. it was new species however non predatory , just soil nematodes. Again once the substrate was changed with another brand or another batch of same brand, no more of that.

I have taken tree barks from outside without any effort of some sort of sterilization (which we can not 100% sterilize in home setting) have caused mysterious deaths of Ts. Sometimes okay.

soil from outdoor seem to have less trouble than tree barks without baking it. Sub soil is better than top soil.
however I would use caution and if you can, bake it, eliminate variables and possible death of your prized T with no answer. Put some effort into it. Or experiment with them like i have done with my T's life on the line. I or others do some sort of trial and error methods to get some sort of answer and good tips should be openly shared.

going back to nematodes, I feel that is due to imbalance of micro fauna as well in captivity. We have seen CB raised Ts out of nowhere have bacterial and nematode infections and die.
Also have seen WC Ts come in okay then all of sudden nematode infection.
i have collected many Ts from south of Texas and observed that there was no spider with nematodes
i have asked European friends who have been collecting and also responsible for introducing many of our favorite species of Ts from around the world that if he/she has seen any ts in the wild with nematodes? the answer was no. but yes sometimes once brought into captivity infections have happened.

boina made a post about how mimicking natural set up in captivity is impossible and yet she is stating that store bought soil is naturally balanced so should be left alone? and mites and mold are okay so therefore natural? i do not think so. If its naturally balanced then why do we see outbreak of one type of mold ? and not controlled?
if your set up is favorable for fungi growth, your T soon or later will die from fungal infection of another type.
good ventilation is key. and mites? simply try different feeder types. switching to roaches from crickets have proved to be successful and we do not need scientific theories and all that to solve these very common and yet easy to solve issues. Also you could manipulate humidity temperature and sunlight to eliminate certain fungus issues too. We hae seen posts where someone noticed mold growth on only on the side of the tank that gets sun light etc.
eventually one type of fungus could dominate if cautions are not taken. because whether the material from outside is so called naturallly balanced once in a small container at your house you have created your own culture of who knows what.

common sense and good house keeping and not being lazy will eliminate problems such as these.

I think i talked about all kinds of stuff without organization haha
I am just not going to say much about it other than sharing my experiences instead of theories and others in this forum/community should do the same and share their real experiences...statistics.

 

[EDED]

ahhh

I sound like someone I do not want to be like.

in the past I have seen and been part of heated arguments kind of getting out of hand. I try not to do that and I hope my post is not read like so.

I do not know most of you and we should all respect each other. I apologize ahead if i sound like I was personally attacking boina. If suggestions can be made I will edit my post so I dont sound like that. I have found ms. boina's posts informative and useful. I like someone who comes with new fresh idea to counter the old so it is nice to know more about these mites and fungus.

i was only writing back for sake of argument on certain things that did not make sense to me. Again nothing personal. I read as carefully as I can and reply if needed however if I was mistaken at any points please let me know.

 

[MintyWood826]

i wonder if boina has several ts set up where they are covered in mites and mold all over the place. We call this "practice what we preach"

I would just like to say that you have misunderstood something as that's definitely not what I got from reading threads @boina made.

Sterilizing substrate is a bad idea because whatever gets onto it first will take over. You're more likely to get outbreaks in sterilized substrate from what I read.

 

[boina]

why dont you recommend soil from outdoor

I do. It's widely used in Germany.

I would like to see boina grow a T for at least a year in a conidition that she says its okay. mold and mites galore.

I did never state that. A well kept tarantula enclosure will not support a mite outbreak but only a small mite population. And yes, I've mites in quite a few of my enclosures and I've had them in there for many years. They don't take over. They are kept in check by natural soil organisms, competitors for the mites, and lack of food. I've also fungi/mold in several enclosures. If it gets too bad I scoop it out and replace with fresh soil, again since many years.

ALL mites you get in tarantula enclosures are harmless. There isn't any other kind. You don't need to identify any mites because again, they are all harmless. The mite phobia that has been plaguing the tarantula community is completely irrational and ill informend.

Also wonder if she has treated any Ts that have fungus growth on its body?

No, I've never done that, because it was never necessary. A healty tarantula will not get a fungus infection. If you've had a tarantula with a fungus infection that tarantula was seriously ill to begin with or it wasn't a fungus in the first place.

Sterilization does not help against mites or fungus, it's a waste of time, because once they show up they will take over, because they completely lack in competition on sterile soil.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

we just tend not to recommend it because, in most places, pesticides/herbicides are just too widespread and pervasive for it to be safe.

Ah ah, like your neighbour one, Mr. Airborne - see my green yard

I do. It's widely used in Germany.



I did never state that. A well kept tarantula enclosure will not support a mite outbreak but only a small mite population. And yes, I've mites in quite a few of my enclosures and I've had them in there for many years. They don't take over. They are kept in check by natural soil organisms, competitors for the mites, and lack of food. I've also fungi/mold in several enclosures. If it gets too bad I scoop it out and replace with fresh soil, again since many years.

ALL mites you get in tarantula enclosures are harmless. There isn't any other kind. You don't need to identify any mites because again, they are all harmless. The mite phobia that has been plaguing the tarantula community is completely irrational and ill informend.



No, I've never done that, because it was never necessary. A healty tarantula will not get a fungus infection. If you've had a tarantula with a fungus infection that tarantula was seriously ill to begin with or it wasn't a fungus in the first place.

Sterilization does not help against mites or fungus, it's a waste of time, because once they show up they will take over, because they completely lack in competition on sterile soil.

After reading this, since it's almost time (19:13) I will reach the kitchen for prepare a Negroni, with soft - under olive oil - mushrooms to eat, as appetizer

Fungus >