need a tank heater for my millipedes. any suggestions?

[yaih0550]

hi! exactly what the title says. i have two adult ivories in a 5.5 gal, and ive noticed that after getting sprayed the soil gets cold (even though its 75° - 80° in the room). id like to be able to turn the heat down but don't want them to be chilly. any suggestions on a heater that would warm the soil but not make them too hot?

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

AQUEON Aquatic Flat Heater, 15-watt - Chewy.com , or maybe the7.5 watt version. I've never tried them but I have wondered how well it would work.

 

[yaih0550]

AQUEON Aquatic Flat Heater, 15-watt - Chewy.com , or maybe the7.5 watt version. I've never tried them but I have wondered how well it would work.

thank you so much! i didnt even think to look for aquatic heaters, something small like that is exactly what i need

 

[hamfist]

The rule is generally - never put heaters in or under the substrate, as millipedes bury themselves to get cool. Having a heat gradient with the substrate warmer underneath will confuse them massively and could possibly kill them.

I don't actually understand your problem. If your air temp is 75-80 then the substrate will be around that too, which is absolutely fine for ivories. When you spray the substrate, spray it with water the same temperature and the substrate will not cool down. It may "feel" colder to your touch but that is a false perception caused by wet things "feeling" colder than they actually are due to increased heat transfer from your fingers to water compared to from your fingers to air or most solids. Or maybe I am not really understanding your problem.

 

[yaih0550]

The rule is generally - never put heaters in or under the substrate, as millipedes bury themselves to get cool. Having a heat gradient with the substrate warmer underneath will confuse them massively and could possibly kill them.

I don't actually understand your problem. If your air temp is 75-80 then the substrate will be around that too, which is absolutely fine for ivories. When you spray the substrate, spray it with water the same temperature and the substrate will not cool down. It may "feel" colder to your touch but that is a false perception caused by wet things "feeling" colder than they actually are due to increased heat transfer from your fingers to water compared to from your fingers to air or most solids. Or maybe I am not really understanding your problem.

apologies, i didnt explain myself well. i believe youre right about the water, i didnt consider that it might have just felt colder to me.

my problem is that the millipedes are in my bedroom, and i have to keep my room at 75 - 80 all the time. i wanted an exterior tank heater that would keep the soil 5 - 10 degrees above ambient temperature so i could turn my radiator down some. i have a setup like that for my hermit crab tank, but the kind of heater i use for that is way too hot for the millies. i was looking for something smaller that would accomplish the same goal without cooking them.

 

[hamfist]

I understand better now. The standard way to heat Millipede tanks is to put a heat pad on the outside side of the tank, above the substrate. The key thing to remember is that when millipedes get too hot and seek coolness they will burrow. So if your substrate is hotter than the air temp in the tank then the millipede will get even hotter by burrowing, and their simple brains will not register this as their drive to burrow to escape heat is too strong.
Because of this it is important to heat a millipede tank by heating from above the substrate. A heat mat is better than a lamp as it will dry out the substrate less .... something you need to watch.

Ideally if using a heat mat on the side of the tank, control it with a thermostat and also insulate the back of the mat so that the heat mostly goes into the tank and not out into your room.

 

[yaih0550]

I understand better now. The standard way to heat Millipede tanks is to put a heat pad on the outside side of the tank, above the substrate. The key thing to remember is that when millipedes get too hot and seek coolness they will burrow. So if your substrate is hotter than the air temp in the tank then the millipede will get even hotter by burrowing, and their simple brains will not register this as their drive to burrow to escape heat is too strong.
Because of this it is important to heat a millipede tank by heating from above the substrate. A heat mat is better than a lamp as it will dry out the substrate less .... something you need to watch.

Ideally if using a heat mat on the side of the tank, control it with a thermostat and also insulate the back of the mat so that the heat mostly goes into the tank and not out into your room.

thanks for the info. didnt realize putting a heat mat under them could be fatal. i havent been able to find a heat mat small enough so i might have to go with a low power aquarium heater, ill make sure to put it up high so the little guys arent stressed by it

 

[Isopods others]

Bear in mind not putting heatmats under tanks applies to most inverts

 

[Matt Man]

thanks for the info. didnt realize putting a heat mat under them could be fatal. i havent been able to find a heat mat small enough so i might have to go with a low power aquarium heater, ill make sure to put it up high so the little guys arent stressed by it

what size is the tank. There are some pretty small heating pads, 4"x5" or 5" Circles.
And yes, don't put on the bottom as they will cook themselves

 

[yaih0550]

what size is the tank. There are some pretty small heating pads, 4"x5" or 5" Circles.
And yes, don't put on the bottom as they will cook themselves

its a 5.5 gal

 

[Matt Man]

its a 5.5 gal

do you have a height and width, because most 5 gallons are typically 5+ inches tall and a small (5") heat mat should fit

 

[yaih0550]

do you have a height and width, because most 5 gallons are typically 5+ inches tall and a small (5") heat mat should fit

its 16" x 8" x 10" i believe. i tried an xs flukers mat and it was too hot for the little guys.

 

[The Snark]

I don't actually understand your problem. If your air temp is 75-80 then the substrate will be around that too,

Thermal battery effect. Apologies for the lengthy explanatiom
The substrate in an enclosure is insulated by detritus and the dried, low conductive uppermost layer. So it stays cooler than the air temperature.

(All materials will revert to the median - average temperature mediated by the highest and lowest temperatures. The greater the mass, the slower the material will respond to temperature changes the speed of the change depending on the thermal conductivity. So a thick plate of steel, or mass of dirt will slowly attain the median while a thin piece of highly thertmally conductive material, say aluminum, will keep responding to the fluctuations of the temperatures, More higher than lower temperatures such as the room air temperature, the higher the median it responds to and will retain.) I'm leaving out the k factor, thermal conductivity as that makes the equation much more complex. Suffice, a piece of styrofoam with very low k will take (mathematical formula here) length of time to attain the median
Example: Major cities. Always warmer than the surrounding countryside. high density thermal mass, concrete and asphalt, absorbs and retains heat faster than the lowest temperature fluctuation can affect it. So cities contribute to global warming. Solar warming > thermal conductivity from below ground.)

So with a terrarium, just sticking in a heater under the substrate can be effective but will always cause a temperature rubber band effect as the new heat source adjusts the substrate to the modification in the media. BUT, as the now heated substrate dries out this affects it's conductivity. The result can easily end up making the median temperature too warm. So best bet is to have an adjustable heat source and heat the substrate slowly, giving things a few days to stabilize. And always keep in mind adding moisture which causes the substrate to react more rapidly to temperature fluctuations. The rubber band effect gets exacerbated, too hot, too cold, back and forth.

 

[Matt Man]

its 16" x 8" x 10" i believe. i tried an xs flukers mat and it was too hot for the little guys.

put the mat on the back / side, sideways right under the top and to one side. Put 3-4" of dirt and leaf litter. That way, if too hot they can crawl away from it and have plenty of room to do so

 

[hamfist]

Thermal battery effect. Apologies for the lengthy explanatiom
The substrate in an enclosure is insulated by detritus and the dried, low conductive uppermost layer. So it stays cooler than the air temperature.

(All materials will revert to the median - average temperature mediated by the highest and lowest temperatures. The greater the mass, the slower the material will respond to temperature changes the speed of the change depending on the thermal conductivity. So a thick plate of steel, or mass of dirt will slowly attain the median while a thin piece of highly thertmally conductive material, say aluminum, will keep responding to the fluctuations of the temperatures, More higher than lower temperatures such as the room air temperature, the higher the median it responds to and will retain.) I'm leaving out the k factor, thermal conductivity as that makes the equation much more complex. Suffice, a piece of styrofoam with very low k will take (mathematical formula here) length of time to attain the median
Example: Major cities. Always warmer than the surrounding countryside. high density thermal mass, concrete and asphalt, absorbs and retains heat faster than the lowest temperature fluctuation can affect it. So cities contribute to global warming. Solar warming > thermal conductivity from below ground.)

So with a terrarium, just sticking in a heater under the substrate can be effective but will always cause a temperature rubber band effect as the new heat source adjusts the substrate to the modification in the media. BUT, as the now heated substrate dries out this affects it's conductivity. The result can easily end up making the median temperature too warm. So best bet is to have an adjustable heat source and heat the substrate slowly, giving things a few days to stabilize. And always keep in mind adding moisture which causes the substrate to react more rapidly to temperature fluctuations. The rubber band effect gets exacerbated, too hot, too cold, back and forth.

It sounds like you are actually pretty much agreeing with me - as I am assuming a pretty constant temperature in the room. Of course the substrate will take longer to reach this "average" temperature than the air in the enclosure but will probably have done so after a few days. To quote you .... a "mass of dirt will slowly attain the median". However, if the room has significant temperature swings with cold nights then its all change as the substrate should be warmer than the enclosure air temperature at night and cooler than it during the day. As you say, its down to thermal conductivity.
Your analogy to a city is a poor one if I may say. A city generates an awful lot of its own heat as well as the factors you mention. A millipede tank generates very very little of its own heat. A city's main heating is, as you say, from the storing and retaining of the sun's heat. Our OP's tank has neither a "sun" equivalent nor the equivalent of anything which will great store and retain any such heat.

My apologies, but the pedant in me could not hold back from responding.

The key thing for our OP to get from my short essay here is that if their room is at a fairly constant temperature then the substrate WILL be the same temperature as the air in the enclosure. If there are significant day/night temperature swings then the substrate will be slightly cooler than the air during the day and sligthtly warmer than the air at night.

 

[The Snark]

@hamfist Apologies extended. Agree, yes. I was in multitasking overload and didn\t explain things at all well. And stoichiometry and I are not the best of friends either.

More my speed: S1 duty cycle !!

 

[yaih0550]

put the mat on the back / side, sideways right under the top and to one side. Put 3-4" of dirt and leaf litter. That way, if too hot they can crawl away from it and have plenty of room to do so

thank you for the diagram! ill try this with the flukers heater and see how it does

 

[Matt Man]

thank you for the diagram! ill try this with the flukers heater and see how it does

this way they have 2 directions to escape the heat. Left to right, and down. They should be able to find a temperature where they are comfortable