Millipedes heat mat placement

[stevet1]

Hi all, new to this forum so apologise if this question has been asked lots (expect it has but I haven't found a clear satisfactory answer yet). Often I see advice that millipedes, specifically Archispirostreptus gigas will be fine at room temperature. But living in the UK the room these will be in can drop to 16-18 degrees celcius in the winter (60-65 farenheit) so I assume they will need an additional heat source. Since they don't like light I intend to purchase a heat mat to raise the temperature to about 24/75 degrees (I will regulate it with a thermostat). Here is where I need some advice. I have read that placing the heat mat under the Terrarium will dry the substrate too much so I will put it on the side (on the outside of the glass), but should it be placed above the substrate to avoid drying any of it, or cover one side of it to warm it up? Also, what size of heat mat would work best? Should it cover one entire side, or just a part of one side (my terrarium is 60cm x 40cm x 30cm)? Sorry for all the questions, just want to get my setup right before starting out.

 

[stevet1]

I found some good info on this thread which has answered my questions I think, heatmat should go above the substrate with possibly a water source nearby to keep humidity up:

Millipede tank

I already have a mardonius parilis and some armidallidium peraccae which I would like to move into a big tank probable 80x40 or similar and add other species off millipedes and possibly some beetles. Would this be possible and would it be alright with the 22x25cm heat mat i have on the current tank?

arachnoboards.com

If anyone has anything to add I'd appreciate it.

 

[stevet1]

Ah one thing I would like further advice on is what power heatmat would I need ? in the thread above a 15W high power one is used (6"x11" mat), would this give too much localised heat, or be okay?

 

[MontePython]

Hi!

I'm also located in the UK, and in my experience (I got my first millipedes at the tail end of winter so it was a bit trial by fire), I think it depends on the size of the tank or tub. I currently have my A. gigas (and five other medium to large millipedes - four African spirostreptids like A. gigas and one SEAsian spirobolid) in a repurposed bowfront fish tank that is about 66cm x 30cm x 30cm (estimated - it's slightly bigger surface-area-wise due to the curved front), and use that same 15W high power 6" x 11" mat, and it works very well for me.

I try to keep it located at least an inch above the substrate if possible (I lined it up using the lip of the hood as guidance, so it wouldn't overlap with the plastic), to minimise drying (I also usually place a shallow, but relatively wide or long water dish near it - it's useful in a pinch if someone DOES need extra hydration (and seeing it can cue me to water my substrate a little, or at least check on it, though I've found at least two of my species show interest in the water even when the substrate is plenty moist), and it evaporating near the heat of the mat helps my air humidity levels.

But to answer the overall question - it does a good job of keeping my tank within the desired parameters - I've not tried using it with a matstat or any other on/off style, but I can vouch for it in conjunction with a pulse thermostat. In the colder days/nights in winter the tank can still sometimes get down to 21-22C, which is colder than I'd like, but not cold enough to cause alarm, but on a normal day it has very little trouble keeping things between 24-27C (I often set it towards the higher end of the range with the understanding that the temperature will still be affected by the outside environment).

I have a much smaller tank (about 40cm x 25.5cm x 28cm) that uses the same heat mat and thermostat pairing and has almost no problem at all keeping up the temperature (even with an almost entirely meshed lid due to the particular species requiring high ventilation).

I hope this helps a little!

Best,
Monte

 

[AuroraLights]

I agree with Monte, high power mat and pulse proportional (or dimming) thermostat is definitely the way to go for us Brits. I have a larger size because my tank is bigger but otherwise the same setup and it works brilliantly. The only issue I have is the mat I got is slightly too tall so I can't get my substrate as high at the back as I'd like to, which means I have to slope it up towards the front and that obstructs the view a bit. Mine covers about 3/4 of the tank's length and can easily keep it at 24-27°C during the day, not sure about the night because I don't usually stay up very late.

 

[stevet1]

Thanks for the advice, I've ordered the habistat high power one. I already have an on/off thermostat though, do you think that will work okay?
Where are you folk putting the thermostat sensor? right by the heat mat (but on the inside of the tank), or in the substrate?
Lastly - can anyone recommend a good place to buy millipedes from in the North West of England?

 

[AuroraLights]

Thanks for the advice, I've ordered the habistat high power one. I already have an on/off thermostat though, do you think that will work okay?
Where are you folk putting the thermostat sensor? right by the heat mat (but on the inside of the tank), or in the substrate?
Lastly - can anyone recommend a good place to buy millipedes from in the North West of England?

Habistat recommend using pulse proportional thermostats with their high power mats. They don't actually say you can't use on/off ones but I wouldn't risk it. As for shops, there are several good ones that deliver throughout the UK. BugzUK is very good and I've heard Virginia Cheeseman is very good as well, but I've not bought from her myself.

 

[MontePython]

Thanks for the advice, I've ordered the habistat high power one. I already have an on/off thermostat though, do you think that will work okay?
Where are you folk putting the thermostat sensor? right by the heat mat (but on the inside of the tank), or in the substrate?
Lastly - can anyone recommend a good place to buy millipedes from in the North West of England?

I've used the on/off before briefly - the biggest issue is that it's hard to maintain the heat really consistently (due to the turning off, then having to turn on again). I know some people who seem okay with it though? I definitely prefer the pulse myself.

Like @AuroraLights said, BugzUk is very good (out of Norwich), and Virginia Cheeseman (I think out of Bucks?) I've heard good things about as well.

I've also had good experiences with both The Spider Shop UK (out of Wales - they're mostly tarantulas of course, but often have an interesting selection of millipedes - I think they just got a few species in recently) and Venomous Visions (can't remember where they're situated, but they're almost exclusively millipedes and centipedes) - I got my A. gigas and S. sp. 8 from the latter, and my S. fischeri from the former and all three are doing very well.

The Legless Millipede is further south, and are currently closed down for a bit due to Covid, but are a really fantastic small operation - I got my subadult S. servatius from them, so when they open back up, I highly recommend them.

But yeah, the upside with the UK is that outside of winter, most any location within the country is pretty safe to order from in terms of shipping safety, and most of these shops will be used to shipping all across the country, so they're good at gauging things like safe weather and packing.

 

[MontePython]

Thanks for the advice, I've ordered the habistat high power one. I already have an on/off thermostat though, do you think that will work okay?
Where are you folk putting the thermostat sensor? right by the heat mat (but on the inside of the tank), or in the substrate?
Lastly - can anyone recommend a good place to buy millipedes from in the North West of England?

Sorry, double-replying because I TOTALLY forgot about the thermostat sensor. I personally don't put it IN the substrate, but I do usually put it just above the substrate (often directly below the mat, but in my smaller tank it's to the side a little). My main reasoning for that is that because heat rises, it's not uncommon for the temperature higher in the tank to be higher than ground level. So if I set my thermostat based on close to ground level - where the millipedes will be crawling when they are above ground, then I can regulate the temperature where they actually are better than if I place the sensor higher up.

I hope that makes sense - I know I kind of ramble a little in my replies at times.

 

[BepopCola]

I just thought I'd add,
that plant lights or moonlight bulbs (which I discovered yesterday) can add an additional heat source.
They wouldn't get hot enough to counter 18C, but they'd help if the side of the tank opposite of the heatmat is still too cold.

 

[MontePython]

I just thought I'd add,
that plant lights or moonlight bulbs (which I discovered yesterday) can add an additional heat source.
They wouldn't get hot enough to counter 18C, but they'd help if the side of the tank opposite of the heatmat is still too cold.

I always wondered about moon bulbs! Most of the ones I've seen are a bit too large to be safe for my big tank (because two of my larger 'pedes are climbers and like to get as high as possible and reach for the ceiling), but I've thought of putting one on the outside of my smaller tank (it's on a shelf so it would be easy to just mount above it) since C. v. vittatus aren't as hardy re: temperature fluctuations as my spirostreptid gang, and I know I'll stress about them in the winter.

 

[BepopCola]

I always wondered about moon bulbs! Most of the ones I've seen are a bit too large to be safe for my big tank (because two of my larger 'pedes are climbers and like to get as high as possible and reach for the ceiling), but I've thought of putting one on the outside of my smaller tank (it's on a shelf so it would be easy to just mount above it) since C. v. vittatus aren't as hardy re: temperature fluctuations as my spirostreptid gang, and I know I'll stress about them in the winter.

I haven't tried them myself yet (it's almost always warm where I am), but here's a little guide on the distance vs. heat aspect, from exo-terra: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/night_heat_lamp.php
I'm thinking of using the small ones to help emulate seasonal changes.

 

[stevet1]

Thanks all, I'm going to ask habistat whether it's safe to use my on/off stat with their high power heat mat. Sensor placement makes sense.
I didn't realise mail order was a safe way to go, once I'm happy with my tank setup I'll have a better look at the places listed.

 

[MontePython]

Thanks all, I'm going to ask habistat whether it's safe to use my on/off stat with their high power heat mat. Sensor placement makes sense.
I didn't realise mail order was a safe way to go, once I'm happy with my tank setup I'll have a better look at the places listed.

That seems like a fair judgement call - they should be able to help!

Best of luck, and if you need anything we're always around

 

[stevet1]

I've got another question on substrate enrichment and decoration, but I'll create another thread.
Cheers.

 

[stevet1]

Thanks for everyone's help do far. I installed the habistat 15w high power heat mat on the left side of my tank (stuck to the outside), connected to an exo-terra on/off thermostat. I've had it on for over 24hrs now, but it does not seem to be raising the temp inside the tank (although it is warm to the touch). I've got 2 thermometers close to it, and one on the opposite side of the tank and they all read the same, about 20 degrees c which is the room temp. An I expecting too much? Got the sensor in the wrong place? It's just below the bottom of the mat. Photo attached to show the position of the mat, sensor and thermometers. Any advice appreciated, I want to be confident in my setup before ordering some millipedes.

 

[stevet1]

Thermostat is set to 25 degrees by the way. So now I'm wondering if I need a ceramic heat emitter instead (something like this - https://www.reptilecentre.com/zoo-med-nano-ceramic-heat-emitter-40w_p31898895.htm) or even as well as the heat pad to raise the temp sufficiently? I read a lot about heat pads just heating what they are in contact with and not raising the air temps by much, is this the case - am I barking up the wrong tree by trying to use a heat pad? Should I use both? Can I run two heat sources off one thermostat? Sorry for all the questions, starting to get a bit frustrated with how to proceed. A lot of the care guides recommend a heat mat on the side above the substrate, but then information on heat mats seems to contradict this saying it will have little to no effect (which seems to tally with my experience).

 

[AuroraLights]

Thanks for everyone's help do far. I installed the habistat 15w high power heat mat on the left side of my tank (stuck to the outside), connected to an exo-terra on/off thermostat. I've had it on for over 24hrs now, but it does not seem to be raising the temp inside the tank (although it is warm to the touch). I've got 2 thermometers close to it, and one on the opposite side of the tank and they all read the same, about 20 degrees c which is the room temp. An I expecting too much? Got the sensor in the wrong place? It's just below the bottom of the mat. Photo attached to show the position of the mat, sensor and thermometers. Any advice appreciated, I want to be confident in my setup before ordering some millipedes.

I would try moving the sensor around a bit to see if that helps. I think you want it on the ground close to but not right next to the mat, but I'd double check the instructions.