Millipede Enclosure Questions

[Cavedweller]

I've got 3 pede tanks now, but there's always room for improvement, so I wanna hear your opinions on enclosures.

Firstly, do you guys think a drainage layer is really necessary? All of my tanks have a layer of hydroton covered by some gardening fabric. I suppose it keeps the lower levels of substrate from getting soggy, but the hydroton usually seems pretty dry, and I'm a little paranoid about pedes climbing between the fabric and the tank wall to get stuck down there.

Next up, climbing branches, good or bad? I've got several cork bark climbs in my big pede tank with the D. macracanthus and C. spingerus, but nothing in my other tanks. The ivories seem to enjoy the climbs a lot (the pinkleg less so, sorry excuse for an arboreal). I don't have any sort of decorations/climbs in my Thai rainbows' tank, and one male spends a lot of his time pacing around on the surface. I feel kinda bad for him not having anything to explore/climb. I've heard that branches can become a hazard to molting millipedes, but I would assume it'd be safe if you buried the end of it very deeply in the substrate and propped the end against the side of the tank.

On a related note, cork bark vs other branches? I know cork bark is pretty much the only kind that won't mold, which is vital when keeping other animals. However, providing a rotting branch means an additional food source for the pedes, right? I put a boiled rotting branch in my tank once, but grain mites exploded over it so I had to throw it out. Would a good springtail population help combat the mite issue?

Also, what do you consider the minimum acceptable enclosure size (proportional to the millipede)? I know that some sources recommend at least as long as the pede by twice as long. I personally like to give my bugs more space than that, and since they're so small, giving them more space is generally easy. I got a 7.5" x 11" tupperware for my 3.5-4" Thai rainbows, and I would like to give them more space than that, especially since I've got one male who paces incessantly (I think he's looking for more mates, since he's probably already tapped all 3 females he lives with).

Lastly, how do you rehouse large numbers of pedes/breeding pedes? I'd like to rehouse my Thai rainbows into a bigger enclosure someday. I've only got 5 at the moment, but I think the females may be laying eggs, so I don't want to disturb them. If I wait though, I'll have to rehouse all the babies as well. What course of action do you guys recommend?

If you guys have any other ideas/suggestions/enclosure issues, let's hear em!

 

[MrCrackerpants]

:biggrin:I'll play:biggrin:

Firstly, do you guys think a drainage layer is really necessary? All of my tanks have a layer of hydroton covered by some gardening fabric. I suppose it keeps the lower levels of substrate from getting soggy, but the hydroton usually seems pretty dry, and I'm a little paranoid about pedes climbing between the fabric and the tank wall to get stuck down there.

MrCrackerpants: No :biggrin:. Yes, they will eventually figure out a way to get down there.

Next up, climbing branches, good or bad? I've got several cork bark climbs in my big pede tank with the D. macracanthus and C. spingerus, but nothing in my other tanks. The ivories seem to enjoy the climbs a lot (the pinkleg less so, sorry excuse for an arboreal). I don't have any sort of decorations/climbs in my Thai rainbows' tank, and one male spends a lot of his time pacing around on the surface. I feel kinda bad for him not having anything to explore/climb. I've heard that branches can become a hazard to molting millipedes, but I would assume it'd be safe if you buried the end of it very deeply in the substrate and propped the end against the side of the tank.

MrCrackerpants: No :biggrin: They are not needed and even the most careful people can accidentally drop them...CRUNCH...

On a related note, cork bark vs other branches? I know cork bark is pretty much the only kind that won't mold, which is vital when keeping other animals. However, providing a rotting branch means an additional food source for the pedes, right? I put a boiled rotting branch in my tank once, but grain mites exploded over it so I had to throw it out. Would a good springtail population help combat the mite issue?

MrCrackerpants: I add dead wood. I do not use cork bark or other branches. I may throw a small branch in and over time they eat it. Yummm!

Also, what do you consider the minimum acceptable enclosure size (proportional to the millipede)? I know that some sources recommend at least as long as the pede by twice as long. I personally like to give my bugs more space than that, and since they're so small, giving them more space is generally easy. I got a 7.5" x 11" tupperware for my 3.5-4" Thai rainbows, and I would like to give them more space than that, especially since I've got one male who paces incessantly (I think he's looking for more mates, since he's probably already tapped all 3 females he lives with).

MrCrackerpants: I have had success (i.e., babies) with super small enclosures and very big ones (4 feet by 3 feet). I use the massive enclosures for educational purposes as there is always something for the "humans" to watch.

Lastly, how do you rehouse large numbers of pedes/breeding pedes? I'd like to rehouse my Thai rainbows into a bigger enclosure someday. I've only got 5 at the moment, but I think the females may be laying eggs, so I don't want to disturb them. If I wait though, I'll have to rehouse all the babies as well. What course of action do you guys recommend?

MrCrackerpants: When I rehouse I do one of 2 things. Sometimes I just place the smaller and shorter enclosure in the center of the bigger enclosure and add substrate all around and above it. Sometimes I remove a small amount of millipedes and substrate from the the top of the enclosure and then invert the old enclosure (slip it out of the old container) and place it in the center of the new enclosure. Then fill in the new enclosure with new substrate. My fear (never happened) is that some will be molting on the bottom of the old enclosure. Try and not fracture the old enclosures substrate as you may damage molting millipedes and eggs. I hope this helps. Millipedes rule.

Disclaimer: This is just what I do. I am not saying it is correct. My enclosures are producing babies. This disclaimer may not be needed as the millipede folks may be a little bit more mellow than the T folks. :biggrin:

 

[Cavedweller]

Thanks for the reply!

No :biggrin:. Yes, they will eventually figure out a way to get down there.

Alright, I'll leave it out of future pede tanks (at least until I start noticing a soggy substrate problem). I was at the nearest LPS today and noticed that only frog tanks had the drainage layer.

No :biggrin: They are not needed and even the most careful people can accidentally drop them...CRUNCH...

Curses. I bought like 6 bucks worth of cork bark at the LPS before I checked AB today. Maybe I'll save em for future T tanks (held one of the LPS's Avics and fell in love <3)

I add dead wood. I do not use cork bark or other branches. I may throw a small branch in and over time they eat it. Yummm!

You never have any mitesplosion problems with the banches?

I have had success (i.e., babies) with super small enclosures and very big ones (4 feet by 3 feet). I use the massive enclosures for educational purposes as there is always something for the "humans" to watch.

Whoa, what kind of population size do you keep in the giant enclosures?

When I rehouse I do one of 2 things. Sometimes I just place the smaller and shorter enclosure in the center of the bigger enclosure and add substrate all around and above it. Sometimes I remove a small amount of millipedes and substrate from the the top of the enclosure and then invert the old enclosure (slip it out of the old container) and place it in the center of the new enclosure. Then fill in the new enclosure with new substrate. My fear (never happened) is that some will be molting on the bottom of the old enclosure. Try and not fracture the old enclosures substrate as you may damage molting millipedes and eggs. I hope this helps. Millipedes rule.

Man, technique number 2 sounds scary, but I guess there's not much else to be done. I guess when I hopefully get Thai plings, I'll make sure they're all done molting before I invert the tank (I assume the hatchlings tend to molt all at once like the Ivory plings did?)

Do you have any kind of overpopulation issues with repoducing pedes in small tanks?

Disclaimer: This is just what I do. I am not saying it is correct. My enclosures are producing babies. This disclaimer may not be needed as the millipede folks may be a little bit more mellow than the T folks. :biggrin:

Thanks man! I wonder why pede keepers might be more mellow than the T crowd.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

Ya, I use the cork for my Ts, roaches and beetles. They can be used, I would just be careful. I have never had mites problems in my millipede enclosures but all of them have MASSIVE populations of giant springtals. My giant enclosures produce huge numbers of millipedes. I do not know as they continue to produce. I set up satellite enclosures with the large mature males and females running on the surface. I do technique number two with small short enclosures. How big is your enclosure? Inverting most aquariums (with the distance the substrate would fall) would not work for technique two. Technique one does not (usually) work for aquariums either. You could just start a satellite group and leave the old enclosure to see if eggs hatch. I have not noticed issues with overpopulation in small enclosures but many times I start new enclosures of the same species.

Keeping millipedes is Zen... ; )

 

[shebeen]

Drainage: A drainage layer is not necessary. If your substrate is draining any water, it's way too wet.

Climbing branches: Tall branches should be avoided. They present a fall danger and don't provide any actual benefit.

Mites: Mite infestations are a result of overfeeding supplemental foods or using improperly prepared substrate. Springtails can help control mite outbreaks by out competing them for food, but I don't think you can get rid of them completely.

Enclosure size: I think a good rule of thumb for minimum enclosure size is 2L x 3L, where L is the length of the occupant. This should be a sufficient size for 4 or 5 individuals.

Rehousing: I'm in the process of rehousing my Narceus, Ivory and Bumblebee millipedes into 16" x 11" x 6" (16 quart) Sterilite tubs. I haven't found any tutorials on rehousing, so I'm just winging it. I've taken a two step approach that seems to work fairly well. My goal here is to transfer the millipedes with as little of the old substrate as possible.

Step 1: I place 1/4 inch slices of cucumber or cantaloupe on the substrate to draw the immatures up to the surface. Then, I place the slices with the millipedes clinging to them into a Tupperware container and use a paint brush to sweep the young millipedes off the fruit. I discard the fruit and pour the millipedes into the new enclosure. Any immatures still on the surface in the old enclosure are gently lifted with a fork or spoon and transferred into the new enclosure. I repeat this procedure every other night until it no longer produces good results.

Step 2: I use a fork to gently scrape out about an inch of substrate and place it into a shallow Tupperware or casserole dish. Then, I sift through the removed substrate with a fork and transfer any immatures or egg capsules I find into the new enclosure. Depending on the size of your old enclosure, you may have to repeat this several times to work through the first inch of substrate. I then repeat the process to remove the second inch of substrate. At this point, I stop removing substrate and set the old enclosure aside. The species I keep generally molt and lay eggs 2 to 3 inches below the surface, so removing any more substrate may disturb/injure molting individuals and egg capsules. This is the point that I'm currently at in my rehousing. I plan to check the old enclosures periodically over the course of the next month or so for any individuals I may have missed or surfacing after a molt.

 

[Cavedweller]

@Crackerpants: You've got D. macracanthus, right? Do you give them climbs? The enclosure I wanna move my pedes from is roughly a 7x10 plastic tupperware. The tank I wanna move em too is a 14x8 kritter keeper. Moving some of the pedes to the new tank sounds like a good idea.

And yes, keeping millipedes brings me a serenity and joy that baffles my mom.

@Shebeen:
Alright, skippin the drainage from now on.

My springtail population has exploded, and I've not seen many mites. So I'm good for now at least.

Yeah, 2Lx3L makes me feel way more comfortable than 1Lx2L.

Alright, that rehousing method sounds solid and I'm gonna try it when I get to setting up the new Thai rainbow tank.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

@Crackerpants: You've got D. macracanthus, right? Do you give them climbs?

Yes, I have 2 adults. No climbs. : ) Do you have a male or a female?

 

[Cavedweller]

Since they're an arobeal species, I figured it would be important to give him access to a climb in case he wanted it. I kinda worry when he crawls around upside down on the screen lid, but there's no route to escape and all those long legs give him a good grip I guess.

I have a male. I want a mate for him soooo badly, but they're so freaking hard to get in the US and I just don't think there's anymore on the market.