Milking Spider Venom

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Milking spiders with our old friend Volker Herzig.
Again a field of activity where we amateurs and simple tarantula keepers can render good services to science, because without the provision of our animals it would be very difficult or even impossible for a toxicologist like Prof. Dr. Volker Herzig to get hold of so many different (tarantula) venoms.
He has probably the largest collection of spider venom in the world. He lives in Australia and does research as a Professor at the University of the Sunshine Coast/Australia. Every few years he visits his parents and friends in Germany to milk spider venom. On this year's tour he stopped by us again after having been to Martin Reinartz from Exo-Pet , Niklas Reinhardt and Jürgen Obster from Vogelspinnen-Bayern among others. Of course exclusively for the reason that we have extremely interesting and beautiful ASIAN tarantulas.

The venom is extracted with the help of a transformer, which causes the muscle, responsible for the venom release, to contract by a slight current flow, whereby the venom flows and is collected in a tube. The size of the spider is then measured by measuring the length of the carapace and abdomen.
The venom or its components are ultimately used in medical and bioinsecticide research.

 

[8 legged]

Did he milk true spiders too, or only tarantulas? If so, with the same method?
Thank you for sharing this experience!

 

[l4nsky]

Very, very interesting! I have a few questions if you don't mind.

• Are the tarantulas anesthetized prior to the procedure? The various grips and the last picture of what appears to be a rather irate Ornithoctoninae sp seems to suggest otherwise.
• Is there a minimum amount of venom per species that is needed for Dr Herzig's research or does the venom yield determine what research can be done?
• How is the venom prepared for storage/transport? Separated via centrifuge and freeze-dried?
• I'm not completely familiar with your collection or the depth of knowledge you possess on each of your specimens collection history (although I imagine it is considerable). If you lack information on the F0 generation for a specimen or species, is that venom kept seperately? What about undescribed species, any additional considerations?

 

[8 legged]

I just asked involved (Schmelzer...) and it looks like all spiders (including Phoneutria) were milked by hand with electrical stimulation without anesthesia. I am in awe of that steady hand!

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Best. Socks. Ever.

Theraphosid Research Team: Arachnologists, Tarantula Specialists, Fashion Icons.

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Best. Socks. Ever.

Theraphosid Research Team: Arachnologists, Tarantula Specialists, Fashion Icons.

Hey, that wasn't our Socks. They are from Volker Herzig!

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Very, very interesting! I have a few questions if you don't mind.

• Are the tarantulas anesthetized prior to the procedure? The various grips and the last picture of what appears to be a rather irate Ornithoctoninae sp seems to suggest otherwise.
• Is there a minimum amount of venom per species that is needed for Dr Herzig's research or does the venom yield determine what research can be done?
• How is the venom prepared for storage/transport? Separated via centrifuge and freeze-dried?
• I'm not completely familiar with your collection or the depth of knowledge you possess on each of your specimens collection history (although I imagine it is considerable). If you lack information on the F0 generation for a specimen or species, is that venom kept seperately? What about undescribed species, any additional considerations?

The spiders are not anesthetized for milking. Volker fixes them with tweezers and then takes them with the so-called "spider grip". I don't know if he needs a minimum amount of poison or from what amount you can work with the poison. You would have to ask Volker Herzig himself.
The venom in the small tubes is frozen immediately after milking. Of course, I don't know how the poison is processed later on.
Why should it be important to know the F0 generation? The animals whose species identity we were able to determine are also named so. For species whose identity is not entirely clear, we use the common name that the species in question has in the community.

 

[l4nsky]

The spiders are not anesthetized for milking. Volker fixes them with tweezers and then takes them with the so-called "spider grip". I don't know if he needs a minimum amount of poison or from what amount you can work with the poison. You would have to ask Volker Herzig himself.
The venom in the small tubes is frozen immediately after milking. Of course, I don't know how the poison is processed later on.
Why should it be important to know the F0 generation? The animals whose species identity we were able to determine are also named so. For species whose identity is not entirely clear, we use the common name that the species in question has in the community.

Thank you for the additional details. The majority of my questions stem from my more or less limited understanding of some venom extraction facilities and wanting to know how the collection and storage procedures differ, if at all.

My questions regarding knowing specimen origins is my own curiousity and I wanted to know if that knowledge carried any weight moving forward. Since a lot of tarantula taxonomy is consistently fluctuating, I was curious if locale information would be used to "future proof" the research if say a species gets split into two distinct species in the future based on non-morphologic evidence like DNA. It's a fringe case example of course.

Thanks,
--Matt

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Thank you for the additional details. The majority of my questions stem from my more or less limited understanding of some venom extraction facilities and wanting to know how the collection and storage procedures differ, if at all.

My questions regarding knowing specimen origins is my own curiousity and I wanted to know if that knowledge carried any weight moving forward. Since a lot of tarantula taxonomy is consistently fluctuating, I was curious if locale information would be used to "future proof" the research if say a species gets split into two distinct species in the future based on non-morphologic evidence like DNA. It's a fringe case example of course.

Thanks,
--Matt

Matt, I had already talked to Volker Herzig about this, because there are still names like "Huwentoxin", which refers to the species originally described as Selenocosmia huwena, but which was later found to be the Haplopelma schmidti I described earlier. Volker said that the name does not really matter, because the structure of the protein is known and this could be reconstructed at any time, if it is needed for experimental scientific purposes. The species name of the species from which the protein originally comes no longer plays a decisive role in the final application.

 

[l4nsky]

Matt, I had already talked to Volker Herzig about this, because there are still names like "Huwentoxin", which refers to the species originally described as Selenocosmia huwena, but which was later found to be the Haplopelma schmidti I described earlier. Volker said that the name does not really matter, because the structure of the protein is known and this could be reconstructed at any time, if it is needed for experimental scientific purposes. The species name of the species from which the protein originally comes no longer plays a decisive role in the final application.

Ahhhhh, ok. So his research is more geared towards the individual proteins harvested from the venom as opposed to the species-specific cocktail as a whole, ergo it doesn't matter what species the protein is harvested from. That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Theraphosid Research Team]

Ahhhhh, ok. So his research is more geared towards the individual proteins harvested from the venom as opposed to the species-specific cocktail as a whole, ergo it doesn't matter what species the protein is harvested from. That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

Here you can find a good overview about the scientific publications of Prof. Volker Herzig and what he is doing in his research.

Volker Herzig

Associate Professor, University of the Sunshine Coast - 4.925-mal zitiert - venoms - toxins - neuropharmacology - toxinology - insecticides

scholar.google.com