mating widow spiders of different species
- Thread starter alex21
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I don't know my widows all that well, but I do know this...
hybridizing isn't cool. Some people will string you by the toes for even considering it. Chances are, the male is going to end up as food without getting the opportunity to mate with your female. Might as well find him a mate of his own species.
Me personally, I have a black widow (L. hesperus) and her name is Zelda. I have NOOOO intention of breeding her though.
Wysi
hybridizing isn't cool. Some people will string you by the toes for even considering it. Chances are, the male is going to end up as food without getting the opportunity to mate with your female. Might as well find him a mate of his own species.
Me personally, I have a black widow (L. hesperus) and her name is Zelda. I have NOOOO intention of breeding her though.
Wysi
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Hybridization has long been the focus of many debates.
One school of thought is that there is something inherently unethical about a hobbyist or scientist playing God.
Another is that it opens up the door for unlimited possibilities with regard to color morphs, enhancing specific traits that are more defined in one species versus another.
This type of manipulation is relatively common in the reptile side of the house. Take for instance the Ball Python. The reptile trade is continually being introduced to new "designer color morphs and patterns"
It is almost mind boggling to try and keep up with all of the different morphs being produced. Granted, the snakes in question, (at least with regard to the Ball Python), are all of the same species, however, many of the traits that breeders are reproducing are ones that would in fact be considered detrimental to the species in the wild....i.e., albinism.
There have been different tarantula hybrids produced in the industry. Stanley Schultz even mentions, with apparent fascination, the idea of a tarantula the size of a T.blondi with the coloration of a C.cyaneopubescens. (Not sure if these are the exact species that he has described).
Who wouldn't want to see this!
With Latrodectus, it is possible to produce "hybrids"
I once tried to mate an L.hesperus male with an L.bishopi female and the experiment ended up in my L.bishopi female having a nice dinner.
I then introduced an L.bishopi male and an L.hesperus female and they did end up mating.
Subsequent offspring were produced, however, the numbers were low, and at the time, I did not have adequate time to see these slings raised to adulthood.
One problem with Latrodectus is that if you have "slim pickings" with regard to males, then you would obviously want to focus on having the male breed species specific in order to keep your bloodlines pure and ensure that you do indeed have L.hesperus offspring when the blessed day arrives.
If for instance you decided to mate an L.hesperus male with a female, and then toss that same male in with an L.geometricus female, your chances of a successful mating diminish greatly due mostly in part to the fact that male Latrodectus will typically lose their ability to mate a second time. Typically, the male Latrodectus will either lose all or part of their embolus during the mating process making it impossible in subsequent matings to penetrate the female's bursa or the males palpal organ will fail to return to its original position thereby making it impossible for any further matings to occur. (paraphrased from an article in JOA)
I personally am the curious type so I recently mated an L.tredecimguttatus male with an L.hesperus female. The mating appeared to be successful, however, I am still awaiting the prodcution of a viable eggsac.
Some may see this as a rather irresponsible act, however, any potential offspring will not be leaving my home and it is nothing more or less than a simple curiosity as to the color morphs that are produced.
Of course one could always say that "curiosity" killed the cat as well!
Best of luck
One school of thought is that there is something inherently unethical about a hobbyist or scientist playing God.
Another is that it opens up the door for unlimited possibilities with regard to color morphs, enhancing specific traits that are more defined in one species versus another.
This type of manipulation is relatively common in the reptile side of the house. Take for instance the Ball Python. The reptile trade is continually being introduced to new "designer color morphs and patterns"
It is almost mind boggling to try and keep up with all of the different morphs being produced. Granted, the snakes in question, (at least with regard to the Ball Python), are all of the same species, however, many of the traits that breeders are reproducing are ones that would in fact be considered detrimental to the species in the wild....i.e., albinism.
There have been different tarantula hybrids produced in the industry. Stanley Schultz even mentions, with apparent fascination, the idea of a tarantula the size of a T.blondi with the coloration of a C.cyaneopubescens. (Not sure if these are the exact species that he has described).
Who wouldn't want to see this!
With Latrodectus, it is possible to produce "hybrids"
I once tried to mate an L.hesperus male with an L.bishopi female and the experiment ended up in my L.bishopi female having a nice dinner.
I then introduced an L.bishopi male and an L.hesperus female and they did end up mating.
Subsequent offspring were produced, however, the numbers were low, and at the time, I did not have adequate time to see these slings raised to adulthood.
One problem with Latrodectus is that if you have "slim pickings" with regard to males, then you would obviously want to focus on having the male breed species specific in order to keep your bloodlines pure and ensure that you do indeed have L.hesperus offspring when the blessed day arrives.
If for instance you decided to mate an L.hesperus male with a female, and then toss that same male in with an L.geometricus female, your chances of a successful mating diminish greatly due mostly in part to the fact that male Latrodectus will typically lose their ability to mate a second time. Typically, the male Latrodectus will either lose all or part of their embolus during the mating process making it impossible in subsequent matings to penetrate the female's bursa or the males palpal organ will fail to return to its original position thereby making it impossible for any further matings to occur. (paraphrased from an article in JOA)
I personally am the curious type so I recently mated an L.tredecimguttatus male with an L.hesperus female. The mating appeared to be successful, however, I am still awaiting the prodcution of a viable eggsac.
Some may see this as a rather irresponsible act, however, any potential offspring will not be leaving my home and it is nothing more or less than a simple curiosity as to the color morphs that are produced.
Of course one could always say that "curiosity" killed the cat as well!
Best of luck
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one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the chance the offspring will be sterile. this has happened with many higher animals, and even in tarantulas some dude in NY crossbred Psalmopoeus irminia with P. pulcher or P. cambridgei and found that the offspring were not as "attractive" and they were sterile
if there is no chance of you getting an conspecific mate, i would say go for the hybrid. something interesting could happen
oh, and i think you are right on the Schultz - blondi - cyanopubescens thing, i believe those are the spiders they mentioned
if there is no chance of you getting an conspecific mate, i would say go for the hybrid. something interesting could happen
oh, and i think you are right on the Schultz - blondi - cyanopubescens thing, i believe those are the spiders they mentioned
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Just an FYI, there are fertile offspring of P. irminia x P. cambridgei.
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awesomeGoTerps said:
i wonder if which is male and which is female matters. i know with horse types it does. one way makes mules and one way makes donkeys or something like that.
do you know anything more about them?
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I seriously doubt which way matters, you should be careful making comparisions with vertebrates.
If instead of spiders we were dealing with a different group, say insects, we would have subspecies... which in my book P. irminia and P. cambridgei are... but alas.
Anyway, this is offtopic, so i'm out!