Maternal P. imperators

[Formerphobe]

I have SO enjoyed keeping these guys communally the past few years! I've noticed with the multiple clutches (litters?) that the females always make sure the babies have food before they eat, up until a certain size/age. Some mothers being so particular as to hand each baby a prey item or piece of prey item before they take food themselves. Today I was able to pinpoint the size/age that babies lose their 'scorpling license'. I had three females give birth the first week of January. Until last week, the females were still making sure babies had food before they started stuffing their own faces.

Today I tossed in a mix of crickets and mealworms. Usually my scorps are partial to mealworms and superworms. Today, crickets were the hot commodity. Babies (~2.0 - 2.5") came popping out of everywhere to grab crickets. In one tunnel I could see a scuffle going on between a mama and a baby. Mama had baby in one claw and cricket in the other. I had visions of cannibalism. :-(
Nope! Mama gently held the baby, pulled the cricket out of its claws, stuffed the cricket in her own mouth and released the baby. Same baby and another tried to take cricket from mama again. She gently removed them and deposited the babies away from her. Wash, rinse, repeat a couple of times. Finally, the babies toddled off to find their own prey.

So, I guess somewhere about 12 weeks of age and/or ~2.25 inches, mama scorpions no longer serve their children meals. LOL
Do other species do this, or is it specific to Pandinus imperator?

 

[ShredderEmp]

That is so cool. I'm glad the mom didn't cannabalize.

 

[JZC]

I'm not really a scorpion guy, but that sounds amazing.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

I have SO enjoyed keeping these guys communally the past few years! I've noticed with the multiple clutches (litters?) that the females always make sure the babies have food before they eat, up until a certain size/age. Some mothers being so particular as to hand each baby a prey item or piece of prey item before they take food themselves. Today I was able to pinpoint the size/age that babies lose their 'scorpling license'. I had three females give birth the first week of January. Until last week, the females were still making sure babies had food before they started stuffing their own faces.

Today I tossed in a mix of crickets and mealworms. Usually my scorps are partial to mealworms and superworms. Today, crickets were the hot commodity. Babies (~2.0 - 2.5") came popping out of everywhere to grab crickets. In one tunnel I could see a scuffle going on between a mama and a baby. Mama had baby in one claw and cricket in the other. I had visions of cannibalism. :-(
Nope! Mama gently held the baby, pulled the cricket out of its claws, stuffed the cricket in her own mouth and released the baby. Same baby and another tried to take cricket from mama again. She gently removed them and deposited the babies away from her. Wash, rinse, repeat a couple of times. Finally, the babies toddled off to find their own prey.

So, I guess somewhere about 12 weeks of age and/or ~2.25 inches, mama scorpions no longer serve their children meals. LOL
Do other species do this, or is it specific to Pandinus imperator?

Yes, this is a great observation. Thanks for the info. Can you tell us a little about your communal set up. How big? How deep is the sub? What is the sub? How many individuals and number of hides? Humidity and temperature? What is your heat source? \ I think this ^^^^^ information and the response to my questions could help many of use that have large numbers of this species and are trying to optimize our breeding projects. Thanks in advance. : )

 

[Formerphobe]

Yes, this is a great observation. Thanks for the info. Can you tell us a little about your communal set up. How big? How deep is the sub? What is the sub? How many individuals and number of hides? Humidity and temperature? What is your heat source? \ I think this ^^^^^ information and the response to my questions could help many of use that have large numbers of this species and are trying to optimize our breeding projects. Thanks in advance. : )

At one point I had 9 adults in a 40 gallon tank. I downsized - sold some and had one female separated out for a sale that fell through. When the last batches of babies were born I had the one female in a five gallon who birthed 21 babies, and two females in a twenty gallon with a yet undetermined number of babies - at least 30, maybe more.
Substrate ranges from 8 to 10 inches deep in the 20 gallon and is a mixture of coconut coir, peat, vermiculite, and potting soil.
Biggest hide is an exoterra cave that sits on the floor of the tank with dirt piled around and on top of it allowing tunnels into the three entrances. The scorps have also made auxiliary burrows.
Heat source is a single heat mat mounted on the back of the tank.
The screen lid is nearly completely covered with plastic wrap to maintain humidity.
A very large, shallow bowl sits on top of the exoterra cave and contributes to humidity. By the bowl sitting on the cave, the scorps can't burrow under it and have it fall on them.
Live plants and isopods.
Humidity and temp... I couldn't tell you exactly. High and warm?

 

[MrCrackerpants]

At one point I had 9 adults in a 40 gallon tank. I downsized - sold some and had one female separated out for a sale that fell through. When the last batches of babies were born I had the one female in a five gallon who birthed 21 babies, and two females in a twenty gallon with a yet undetermined number of babies - at least 30, maybe more.
Substrate ranges from 8 to 10 inches deep in the 20 gallon and is a mixture of coconut coir, peat, vermiculite, and potting soil.
Biggest hide is an exoterra cave that sits on the floor of the tank with dirt piled around and on top of it allowing tunnels into the three entrances. The scorps have also made auxiliary burrows.
Heat source is a single heat mat mounted on the back of the tank.
The screen lid is nearly completely covered with plastic wrap to maintain humidity.
A very large, shallow bowl sits on top of the exoterra cave and contributes to humidity. By the bowl sitting on the cave, the scorps can't burrow under it and have it fall on them.
Live plants and isopods.
Humidity and temp... I couldn't tell you exactly. High and warm?

Thanks so much. This is very helpful. I am pretty close to this set up but, based on your recommendations, I will modify my enclosures. Is the heat mat of the ZooMed type? Do you have it mounted on the bottom of the back (versus the middle or top of the back)? If so, can the scorpions reach it? My concern is that since some of these mats are 120-125 F, I am wondering if the scorpions lay on the hot glass and get burned or die? My guess is that they don't since your having such great success! : ) Thanks again.:biggrin:

 

[Formerphobe]

The heat mat is more toward the bottom of the back wall, centered from end to end. The scorps could get against the glass next to part of the heat mat if they tried, but I haven't seen any burrows right against the glass. Not where I can see, anyway. The babies actually have a little tunnel that opens toward the front of the tank where there is no additional heat.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

The heat mat is more toward the bottom of the back wall, centered from end to end. The scorps could get against the glass next to part of the heat mat if they tried, but I haven't seen any burrows right against the glass. Not where I can see, anyway. The babies actually have a little tunnel that opens toward the front of the tank where there is no additional heat.

Great! Thanks for the extra info and the clarification on the heat mat. My ZooMed heating pad comes where you can stick it on the side but over time the pad will no longer stick. How are you adhering yours to the side of your aquarium? I used duct (i.e., duck) tape last time but it was a mess with the gooey adhesive. I thought about mail packing tape but I was unsure if it is a fire hazard. :biggrin:

---------- Post added 03-29-2013 at 10:42 PM ----------

When the last batches of babies were born I had the one female in a five gallon who birthed 21 babies, and two females in a twenty gallon with a yet undetermined number of babies - at least 30, maybe more.

With the 2 females and their babies in the 20 gallon: Were there issues with the Mother's attacking one another or attacking the babies that were not their own?

Were you just using a flat rock for mating?

With your original 9: How many males and how many females?

Thanks :biggrin:

 

[Formerphobe]

With the 2 females and their babies in the 20 gallon: Were there issues with the Mother's attacking one another or attacking the babies that were not their own?

Were you just using a flat rock for mating?

With your original 9: How many males and how many females?

Originally there were three: adult male, adult female and sub-adult female.
Adult female gave birth to 6 and raised them all.
The females drove the male out of the communal burrow before the babies were born and kept him out for several weeks while the babies were small.
The sub-adult female helped "Bertha" tend the babies.
Babies: 5 females, 1 male.

The nine of them co-habbed in the 40 gallon nicely for well over a year.
I found the young male deceased one day. Not cannibalized, but removed from the burrow(s). I don't know if the other male killed him fighting over females, or what happened. All nine were still together at that time.
This past fall I found the old man dead. The females would have been gravid. I don't know if they killed him or if he died of old age. That was about the time I broke down the big tank and sold off some of the females.

I'm assuming the two females still housed together share mothering duties since I previously witnessed an unrelated female helping care for another's babies. They are all sharing a communal cave/burrow and I have no idea which scorplings belong to which mama. It's entirely possible that only one female gave birth, though both looked gravid (or fat...) when I rehoused them.

I just let nature take its course as far as mating.
I'm a novice at scorp keeping/breeding, but I would recommend only keeping one adult male per group of females. And, unless you have a huge tank, remove the male once the females are gravid.

The original 'litter' of six were HUGE at birth. The six of them completely covered her back. I kept scorpions back in the 80s and remember larger litters of much smaller scorplings. Maybe because she had so few, they had opportunity to get bigger(?). We'd also had a snowstorm and power outage for several days a couple of months before she birthed them. Maybe the drop in temperature caused her to delay birth (?). These last groups of babies are the smaller size that I remember, but there are also a lot more of them.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

Originally there were three: adult male, adult female and sub-adult female.
Adult female gave birth to 6 and raised them all.
The females drove the male out of the communal burrow before the babies were born and kept him out for several weeks while the babies were small.
The sub-adult female helped "Bertha" tend the babies.
Babies: 5 females, 1 male.

The nine of them co-habbed in the 40 gallon nicely for well over a year.
I found the young male deceased one day. Not cannibalized, but removed from the burrow(s). I don't know if the other male killed him fighting over females, or what happened. All nine were still together at that time.
This past fall I found the old man dead. The females would have been gravid. I don't know if they killed him or if he died of old age. That was about the time I broke down the big tank and sold off some of the females.

I'm assuming the two females still housed together share mothering duties since I previously witnessed an unrelated female helping care for another's babies. They are all sharing a communal cave/burrow and I have no idea which scorplings belong to which mama. It's entirely possible that only one female gave birth, though both looked gravid (or fat...) when I rehoused them.

I just let nature take its course as far as mating.
I'm a novice at scorp keeping/breeding, but I would recommend only keeping one adult male per group of females. And, unless you have a huge tank, remove the male once the females are gravid.

The original 'litter' of six were HUGE at birth. The six of them completely covered her back. I kept scorpions back in the 80s and remember larger litters of much smaller scorplings. Maybe because she had so few, they had opportunity to get bigger(?). We'd also had a snowstorm and power outage for several days a couple of months before she birthed them. Maybe the drop in temperature caused her to delay birth (?). These last groups of babies are the smaller size that I remember, but there are also a lot more of them.

Thanks again for all the great info. This^^^^^ also helps a lot! : )

 

[Formerphobe]

Ok, I lied. I thought both females in the communal gave birth in January. Not so. Yesterday, after feeding the commune, I discovered one of them with a back full of white babies. She didn't seem disturbed in the least that her ~12 week old 'nieces and nephews' were milling about her and tussling over mealworms. The 3 month olds are starting to carve out pint sized burrows for themselves, but for the most part seem to congregate with mom and 'auntie' in the largest cavern.

 

[Formerphobe]

First views of the latest clutch of babies. In the foreground is one of the ~12 week olds stuffing its face. The white 'litter' on the substrate is the cast exuviae of the babies first molt.
Sorry the pics aren't any better. I had to practically crawl down into the tank to get these. I'm sure that would have made a comical picture that my kids could hold over me. LOL

 

[MrCrackerpants]

First views of the latest clutch of babies. In the foreground is one of the ~12 week olds stuffing its face. The white 'litter' on the substrate is the cast exuviae of the babies first molt.
Sorry the pics aren't any better. I had to practically crawl down into the tank to get these. I'm sure that would have made a comical picture that my kids could hold over me. LOL

Cool! That Emp is really eating the meal worms!!

 

[Formerphobe]

Cool! That Emp is really eating the meal worms!!

Yeah, they're little pigs! LOL
Last week I witnessed one of the now ~16 week old babies eating food from its mama's mouth. They were literally 'lip to lip' and she wasn't pushing junior away.
The latest babies are now off their mama's back and all seem to be happily milling around in the large communal burrow.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

Great! Thanks for the update.

 

[Formerphobe]

It was feeding time at the pig farm again last night. The youngest babies are off mom's back and toddling around in groups or as individuals. Before I opened the tank, both mamas and several of each clutch were out in the open. (The mamas have been excavating, I guess making room for their growing children.) When the lid came off, all hightailed it for the main burrow, or vanished down auxiliary tunnels. After I dumped the crickets, many of the juveniles reappeared to chase down crickets or squabble with their siblings. It was a few minutes before I saw any babies at all. When the babies reappeared, each was in possession of a cricket part. I'm assuming the mamas were in the main burrow 'carving the turkey' and serving meals. The larger juveniles continued to hunt crickets and squabble with each other, but left their younger siblings/cousins alone. A few of the juvies even shared their catches with some of the babies, though most ran from the babies to avoid sharing. LOL Typical children! The mamas were the last to come out of the burrow. Both were empty-clawed and looking for meals of their own.

 

[ShredderEmp]

That's so funny.

 

[Cavedweller]

This is a great thread! I haven't read much on scorpion parenting behavior. How old were the scorplings when the females let the male back into the burrow?

 

[Galapoheros]

lol I missed this thread. Hey could you take a wide angle pic of the 40 gal you have them in? I've seen some behavior like that too but I didn't pay so close attention. The most I've seen is the mother killing something and dropping it, then the babies dig in.

 

[Formerphobe]

This is a great thread! I haven't read much on scorpion parenting behavior. How old were the scorplings when the females let the male back into the burrow?

With the first clutch (2011), they were all back in the same burrow when the babies were about 3 - 4 months old. This past fall when I broke down the tank and removed some of the females, it appeared as though the males were burrowed separately. Since I don't see all of them on a regular basis (just front ends sticking out of burrow openings), I'm not really sure who was who.

---------- Post added 05-23-2013 at 10:59 AM ----------

lol I missed this thread. Hey could you take a wide angle pic of the 40 gal you have them in? I've seen some behavior like that too but I didn't pay so close attention. The most I've seen is the mother killing something and dropping it, then the babies dig in.

I'll try to get some of those posted.