LOTS of bird questions...

[Caramell]

Hi everyone.
I have a lot of questions about birds here...
I have obsolutely no idea how the bird thing works. I'm a T person.
Here's the deal:

My mom is obsessing over owning a pet bird. She is very fond of the Sun Conures and the African Grey Parrots. She also like Cockatiels.
She doesn't want to buy one at a pet store because "you can't teach them anything." And because they're expensive.
She really wants a tame bird and have it talk and sing songs(this is her fantasy, not mine...).
She said that she wants to get a baby bird and raise it from there.
I don't think she wants the kind of "baby" where you have to feed it a formula and how it doesn't have feathers. So I'm guessing she just wants a very young bird(I don't know any other way to word it).
So what stage of the bird am I thinking of here?
Where can I find these "young birds?"
And around how much money am I looking at paying, depending on the species?

Also, we are heading for South Carolina in about two weeks. My mother said that maybe we could find a local breeder there and maybe purchase one for less money, if it is young. I'm not sure about this, so can I get some info on this? Is it possible? And do younger birds cost less?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I hope your mom realizes that this isn't just going to be a cute little toy that sings on command. Owning a parrot (especially a freaking African Gray) is like adopting an autistic two-year-old that can bite your fingers off and will stay two years old forever. They will scream (and your neighbors living across the street will hear it), they will make messes, they will destroy things, they will seriously affect every part of your life - want to visit relatives in another state for two weeks? Well, you can't, because good luck finding someone who wants to put up with that and won't just shove the bird in a cage the whole time.

They will need constant daily attention and toys and mental stimulation or they will go insane and mutilate themselves.

As an added bonus, the parrot may not even like her. It may latch on to someone else in the household, or decide it only likes men, and good luck changing its mind.

Parrots end up self-mutilated and screaming in bird rescues because people have fantasies about a cute parrot just like in the movies, and then they realize they don't like the reality.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

If you care about your mom AND birds, I would strongly discourage someone who wants a parrot for such an foolish reason. I know this is your mom, but people like her are the reason we have an epidemic of parrot homelessness in this country; it's a case of ignorance mixed with false media portrayals of these birds' true natures. Parrots are an animal for which very few people - arguably none - can provide truly appropriate care in captivity. To keep a parrot even well is to subject a highly intelligent wild animal to a life time of depravation from everything that comes to it naturally. I am saying this, btw, as the owner of several parrots, not some PETA freak.

I suggest your mom do more research, especially more research than having her child ask questions on an arachnid forum. I firstly suggest she buy/get from the library the book "Of Parrots and People" then see if she still wants a bird. If she won't do that, she needs to at least check out the following websites: http://www.mytoos.com, http://www.avianwelfare.org, http://www.fosterparrots.org, and http://www.theangryparrot.org

Parrots are amazing animals, and anyone who understands and respects them knows that for this very reason, few if any people should own them. The average parrot goes through at least six homes in its lifetime, and people don't give up animals they invested thousands in for no good reason. As Mushroom Spore said, they are like having an intelligent, special needs, sexually charged, potentially aggressive two year old - for 30-90+ years. Sun Conures and Greys, incidentally, are some of the most commonly abandoned birds in the pet trade - the former because they are LOUD for a little bird, the latter because they become self-mutilating neurotic messes and aren't "snuggly" like most people prefer.

 

[Caramell]

I had her read all of that. She's definitely rethinking the idea.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

Good; I sincerely hope after more reading that she elects against it. However, IF she still decides she really wants a bird, may I humbly suggest that she look into a (reputable) bird rescue? The merit of this choice is that most good rescues will have the adopter come and interact with the bird they want for at least a month before it comes home. She will have to feed, clean, handle, etc. the animal, during which time she'll get a peek at how challenging husbandry is and decide if it is right for her - while simultaneously getting to know the serious lifelong committment she is about to take on. Yeah, rescue birds sometimes have behavioral problems (guess what, so do purchased ones), but at least you'll know them up front before taking the plunge. It is a much better system that buying a god-only-knows-what from a breeder or pet store.

 

[loxoscelesfear]

MUSHROOM SPORE, you get an A+ in your discription of African Greys. It was comical but true. I am the moron who has baby sitted a few and none were friendly.

 

[bigdog999]

I agree with the above. Parrots in general and conures specifically are the noisiest and loudest birds around. BTW african greys are like around $1000 bucks, whereas suns and cockateils are about $150. Now if she still wants a bird, go for the cockatiels. They can be pretty good, much quieter and less damaging.

 

[Mack&Cass]

My mother in law had a Blue and Gold Macaw and she eventually had to sell her. She was a lot of work, and even though she could talk and was entertaining, they could never go anywhere for longer than a day. Also, the macaw was only a one person bird, so anyone other than my mother in law who went near her heard about it. She had the macaw on her shoulder one night, and my brother in law walked by, the bird got spooked and caught her beak on the corner of my mother in laws eye, causing the loss of her peripheral vision in that eye. It's a lot of responsibility and isn't as great as it looks on the outside. They also live for a very long time and are expensive to cage and feed.

 

[Aurelia]

I've had some experience with finches and I have to say that they are a lot smarter than what most people give them credit for. They also don't scream like parrots.

If your mom is turned off by the idea of a parrot, but still wants a bird, I would suggest finding a finch breeder and buying a young finch to interact with and hand-tame. They're not as psychologically dependent on humans as parrots, as long as there is another finch around, but they're smart enough to be hand-tamed and can make fun companions.

 

[Faing]

They will need constant daily attention and toys and mental stimulation or they will go insane and mutilate themselves.

As an added bonus, the parrot may not even like her. It may latch on to someone else in the household, or decide it only likes men, and good luck changing its mind.

I think this is one of the most important factors: they take a lot of time. And they're loud. If it gets bored or stressed there's a good chance it'll end pulling its feathers out... something you don't want happening. Not to mention the fact that parrots have good lifespans... you better make sure you REALLY want it.

And it's true, birds develop weird relationships to people sometimes where they don't bond to you (and become rather defensive- Ex: biting) and bond to someone else.

 

[Craig]

I really like what Faing said about birds taking a lot of time. They need DAILY cage cleaning. They also need a lot of social interaction or they become aggressive.

I would also like to mention medical concerns. If the bird gets sick you will have to take it to somewhere that specializes in Avian medicine. The tests that new bird owners should get equal about $400 for all the tests (maybe more depending were you go) They are the following tests Psitt, PBFD, Polyoma, (sometimes ASPER) and a fecal direct. Most people with limited budgets at least to Psitt and PBFD. If the bird gets sick it will need to stay in the hospital this will be expensive also. Some really sick birds will even die in the hospital and you will still have to pay for some of the bill.

I understand that conures and african greys cost a lot of money. As with any other pets the cheapest part of owning the pet is the initial cost of the bird. Birds are not an animal that should be bought on impulse.

And also you are not going to find cheaper prices for any of those birds. Sometimes a private breeder will be more expensive than the pet store.

Prices for baby african greys from breeders will be around $865.00 to $1,000 (use google).
That is not including the food, cage, etc. Also it is quite possiable to train birds from pet stores. I'm not sure where she got the idea that it is not.

 

[arachyd]

The above statements are true. Another thing to think about - if she is a model parrot owner and forms a great bond with the bird it may outlive her. After lavishing the necessary love and attention on such a social creature it would probably feel lost and pine away without her (they really do) unless by some miracle it could tolerate a new home. Even parrot rescues have a difficult time finding a good human/parrot match for a bird that already bonded to someone. If she really likes parrots maybe she would consider a parakeet. They are friendly, sociable, can learn a few words, can whistle a bit, like to chatter but not loud enough to wake the neighbors and they can learn tricks. A parakeet's bite can really pinch but will rarely break the skin. They are messy but more from seed hulls than from lots of poop. They are not too expensive and available practically everywhere in pet stores. Cages don't have to take up half a room. They don't live 50-90 years and as far as I know they don't become terminally depressed if their owner passes on. They are also awfully cute in a variety of color patterns. I've had several and they are great pet/companions.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

it may outlive her. After lavishing the necessary love and attention on such a social creature it would probably feel lost and pine away without her (they really do) unless by some miracle it could tolerate a new home.

become terminally depressed if their owner passes on.

Oh yeah, I forgot this stuff. And it's true - one of my aunts has a parrot (I forget what sort, I just remember he's medium-sized and green) that was inherited from my grandmother's friend when he died, who was owned by at least one person before that. He still tries to call for his last owner sometimes even years later, it's really sad. He was pretty clearly smart enough to remember and miss the guy after it happened, but not smart enough to understand that he was dead instead of just leaving one day and never coming back.

I don't know what will happen if he outlives my aunt, I know I can't handle a parrot and Alvin doesn't like me much anyway, so he'll probably end up being moved to a rescue or yet another strange family.

 

[RoachGirlRen]

My Amazons have each been through three owners. While one does not show any overt signs of recalling her first caregiver or anyone at her second home (it was a vet kennel), the other still calls for his previous owners sometimes. His first owner was killed in a collision with a truck, the second died of cancer. When I bring him some of his favorite treats that he used to get in his old home (very rarely as it is all "junk food" by my standards), he gets very excited and starts calling the last owner's name. He also periodically rocks, moans, and says "I love you, Liz." He's adapted well to my ownership, but definitely still remembers and misses his old owner. For a species that forms life-long bonds in the wild, it is a VERY traumatizing ordeal for parrots to lose an owner.

 

[IdahoBiteyThing]

all true

I currently have 5 "rescue" (abandoned) birds with various levels of traumatization that I've been working w/ for over 2 years in some cases. Big birds especially just really don't make very good pets for most people. I am becoming a believer that it is more appropriate for birds to bond with other birds (not humans) for their own well-being. Two SMALL birds (parakeet/lovebird/cockatiel) can make very nice pets that rely on each other without a lot of behavioral problems. That being said, they'll be less affectionate to their human keepers, but still pretty interactive imho. To get birds because someone has a need to be needed by one is, frankly, not healthy for either the bird or the human. And when it doesn't work out, what then?
I am saddened when I hear my b/g macaw vocalize words from his previous existence like, "no!" , "stupid", "ouch!" and other words that I can't put on the boards. Two years later, he is a much different bird than when he came to me, but his level of trust in humans is so shaky that he'll never be OK with them. The best I can hope for is to keep him paired with another bird, keep them well fed and housed and hope they don't outlive me.

 

[GailC]

I have a sun conure, got him fro a private breeder a week after he was weaned off hand fedding. He is absolutly the loudest, messiest monster you can imagine. He ruins all my shirts, has picked a hole in the couch, terrorizes the other pets and is in a constante state of sexual fustration.
I love him dearly but will never, ever own another parrot. I knew he would be needy but I didn't realize it would be like this.
He cost $375 which is cheap here, his first cage was $200 and the new cage I just got him cost $250. I can easily spend $50+ every month on new toys, plus his high quality seed mix and the rice based pelled food he likes is kinda pricy too.
The wall behind his cage is flecked with dried fruit, that stuff dries like cement and he refus to eat inside his cage. Some of his behavior is my fault for spoiling him and its so hard to break bird of bad habits.

Years ago I had a parakeet that was bought at a mall pet store, I hand tamed his easy enough and he learned over 20 words. He didn't like the close contact that bigger parrots do but he was always happy to come out and see me. Parakeets are a very underrated pet bird, they have huge personalities without such demanding care.
You could also consider a male canary, they too can be hand tamed and their song is beautiful. I plan on getting a canary once my conure has passed, but that will be many years yet since he is only 7 years old.

 

[Scylla]

Lifetime commitment and work

My Nanday conure just passed away a few weeks ago. I don't know how old he was, but I had him for 33 years. I still have a black headed Caique. Every morning before I head out to work I have to tend to him. That involves chopping fruits and veggies, and giving him fresh water and pellets. Mornings would be a lot easier without him. He bites me every chance he gets, and screams his good night calls while we're watching TV. He flings his fruit when he eats and I'm constantly cleaning the floor and walls around his cage. (I think they modeled cement after bird poop.) Yes, he's cute, and he does a few tricks. He's still a lot of work, and he's going to remain a lot of work for a long time, if my Nanday is any indication. ummmm...someone explain why I have a bird again? :?