Little Julid Millipedes

[Hisserdude]

May I see a picture then? Come to think of it, if I'm putting something together on identifying millipedes in North America, I should include invasive species too, even if the focus is on the natives.

Here are some pics of those small Julids I was talking about, thought you may want to see them.

They're pretty crappy pics, but what can I say, my camera does not handle tiny bugs well.

 

[mmfh]

Those are really cool looking

 

[ErinM31]

Here are some pics of those small Julids I was talking about, thought you may want to see them.

They're pretty crappy pics, but what can I say, my camera does not handle tiny bugs well.

Thank you for posting these! I think they turned out well, especially considering how small these guys are! (My iPhone struggles with small or shiny and both is a nightmare!) I think the 2nd and 4th photos came out out particularly well. Would you mind to post these on BugGuide (or if I did but gave you credit)? If they are different from those I have around here, I would pay to have some shipped because I am collecting all North and Central American millipedes. Again I am frustrated by the lack of available info for identifying millipedes! Parajulid is all the info I got from BugGuide as that was all that could be determined from the photo. I asked what additional info would be needed to classify further, adding that I still had the millipede, hoping to be asked a specific question or told to count something or take a picture of a particular feature or, well, anything...

Here's the best photo I could get of the parajulids around here:


Looking over BugGuide now... Huh, as far as I can see, ours don't fit any of the posted genera. To my untrained eye, ours look quite similar, also similar to a photo of one from Illinois:
http://bugguide.net/node/view/1210586/bgimage

Can I create a new genus for them? I'll make it Latin for "dorsal stripe" or something.

 

[pannaking22]

Nice looking little pede! The issue you might run into is that in many cases, millipedes can only be IDed by doing dissections of the genitals, especially in the males. Without that you may not have a ton of luck. On the positive side (?), millipede taxonomy is an absolute mess, so you stand a decent chance at finding a random new species or could help reorganize a genus or even family through taxonomic/molecular methods.

 

[Hisserdude]

Thank you for posting these! I think they turned out well, especially considering how small these guys are! (My iPhone struggles with small or shiny and both is a nightmare!) I think the 2nd and 4th photos came out out particularly well. Would you mind to post these on BugGuide (or if I did but gave you credit)? If they are different from those I have around here, I would pay to have some shipped because I am collecting all North and Central American millipedes. Again I am frustrated by the lack of available info for identifying millipedes!vParajulid is all the info I got from BugGuide as that was all that could be determined from the photo. I asked what additional info would be needed to classify further, adding that I still had the millipede, hoping to be asked a specific question or told to count something or take a picture of a particular feature or, well, anything...

Here's the best photo I could get of the parajulids around here:
View attachment 209439

Looking over BugGuide now... Huh, as far as I can see, ours don't fit any of the posted genera. To my untrained eye, ours look quite similar, also similar to a photo of one from Illinois:
http://bugguide.net/node/view/1210586/bgimage

Can I create a new genus for them? I'll make it Latin for "dorsal stripe" or something.

Yeah later today I will be posting a few photos on bugguide including pictures of these, I'm pretty sure mine are on of the the European Brachyiulus sp, see here: http://bugguide.net/node/view/97643 Your one is a different species, and is probably a native Julid. If you still want some let me know, I can probably collect a ton for you.

We unfortunately can not create genus pages, or any pages for that matter. Only editors can do that, and when I tried to contact someone to let me be one, they didn't really write back...

 

[Hisserdude]

Those are really cool looking

Thanks!

Nice looking little pede! The issue you might run into is that in many cases, millipedes can only be IDed by doing dissections of the genitals, especially in the males. Without that you may not have a ton of luck. On the positive side (?), millipede taxonomy is an absolute mess, so you stand a decent chance at finding a random new species or could help reorganize a genus or even family through taxonomic/molecular methods.

Yeah, luckily these ones are pretty distinctive and seeing as they are found in backyards all over the place here it seems like they would be one of the cosmopolitan European Brachyiulus spp.

There are two that have been introduced to America, which one I have, I have no clue, and seeing as bugguide doesn't even have species pages, it seems that dissection of the genitals would indeed be needed.

 

[ErinM31]

We unfortunately can not create genus pages, or any pages for that matter. Only editors can do that, and when I tried to contact someone to let me be one, they didn't really write back...

I was joking about doing that.

I just discovered Milli-PEET -- how did I I miss this before???! :wideyed: FINALLY, information on classifying millipedes and wow, there are a LOT more orders than I realized! While I was joking about inventing a genus, you'd think that those known to be found in the U.S. would be in BugGuide?

@Hisserdude How can you tell that mine is a different species than yours? Perhaps I am focusing on the wrong aspects, but they look quite similar to me.

 

[Hisserdude]

I was joking about doing that.

I just discovered Milli-PEET -- how did I I miss this before???! :wideyed: FINALLY, information on classifying millipedes and wow, there are a LOT more orders than I realized! While I was joking about inventing a genus, you'd think that those known to be found in the U.S. would be in BugGuide?

@Hisserdude How can you tell that mine is a different species than yours? Perhaps I am focusing on the wrong aspects, but they look quite similar to me.

Well probably not, they only show the species that people have submitted pics for, so I'm sure there are plenty of millipedes that have yet to be photographed and then submitted to bugguide.

Yours has thinner banding on it, mine has a thick band of dark brown running along the sides while yours has a thin band of dots along its sides. Mine seems overall more dark than yours, and if Rowland Shelley says yours is Parajulidae, then ours are in two different families.

 

[ErinM31]

That makes sense, but there are a lot of different Julids posted that have only been classified to the order or family. It would seem they would add more genera, unless not even that level is knowable without disection.

Maybe I'll take and post another photo... If it's being classified based on coloring, I fear that this photo having been taken with a flash could distort that. It was the only picture that turned out. Maybe it is a parajulid but I would like to be sure. Hmm, perhaps I should pay for you to ship some to me, if you don't mind collecting them. Then I could see the millipedes side-by-side.

 

[Hisserdude]

That makes sense, but there are a lot of different Julids posted that have only been classified to the order or family. It would seem they would add more genera, unless not even that level is knowable without disection.

Maybe I'll take and post another photo... If it's being classified based on coloring, I fear that this photo having been taken with a flash could distort that. It was the only picture that turned out. Maybe it is a parajulid but I would like to be sure. Hmm, perhaps I should pay for you to ship some to me, if you don't mind collecting them. Then I could see the millipedes side-by-side.

Well lots of Julids look the same, and either absurdly good pics are needed for some to be identified, genital dissection is needed for identification, or the experts haven't gone through all the Julid pics yet. I know some images can sit at family level for years before they are identified.

If you do get another picture, tree y to get a dorsal shot, that is the the most important perspective for identification it seems. If you do end up wanting some of my Julids let me know, I could definitely catch some for you, so long as you pay shipping!

 

[Hisserdude]

Posted pics of the Julids on bugguide, hopefully the experts will be able to confirm or correct my suspicions. Here's the page: http://bugguide.net/node/view/1216776/bgimage

 

[ErinM31]

Posted pics of the Julids on bugguide, hopefully the experts will be able to confirm or correct my suspicions. Here's the page: http://bugguide.net/node/view/1216776/bgimage

Thank you for the link!

 

[Hisserdude]

Found another tiny species of Julid, it's another European species, Blaniulus guttulatus.

 

[ErinM31]

Cool! I was disappointed that no one confirmed your ID of the first Julid on BugGuide. If you happen to find abundant Chelojulus sculpturatus, I would gladly pay for those and some of these non-native Julids as well!

 

[Hisserdude]

Cool! I was disappointed that no one confirmed your ID of the first Julid on BugGuide. If you happen to find abundant Chelojulus sculpturatus, I would gladly pay for those and some of these non-native Julids as well!

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get to it eventually. If I do find some of those Chelojulus I'll be sure to send some your way, you'd only have to pay shipping. Do you know of any other native millipedes that range into Idaho?

 

[ErinM31]

Yeah, I'm sure they'll get to it eventually. If I do find some of those Chelojulus I'll be sure to send some your way, you'd only have to pay shipping. Do you know of any other native millipedes that range into Idaho?

I would gladly pay for shipping and then some. I will look -- I'm sure that there are others! This one just stood out to me as it was both quite unique looking AND apparently found ONLY in Idaho.