LED blacklights and the effects on inverts (specifically vinegaroon)

[embryolk]

I got a female vinegaroon last year and she's been doing great! I love taking care of her and watching her move about her terrarium (before anyone asks, it's got everything she needs, fine size, good deep substrate, hides, etc). I recently started using LED color lights in my room while I decorate it Halloween-style (it's my favorite holiday), and today I picked up LED backlights to use as the main light source. These do not give off heat, they're explicitly decoration only.... buuuut I'm a little worried about if it could potentially hurt or affect her in some way. I can live without them, as cool as they are, so if anyone has an idea on if they're harmful at all I'd appreciate some input so I can rest easy on keeping them or not. Bonus points if you have a credible source to read up on this topic too. Thanks!

 

[The Snark]

Unassigned variable. UV LEDs vary several thousand percent in today's market. If they aren't lab tested and a data sheet came with them you have a huge unknown. I've got two visibly identical LED laser pointers here. One within the prescribed restricted output, the other with an off the charts amount of harmfull IR splash over.

 

[embryolk]

Robot or human?

If it helps at all, this is the specific kind I purchased. She does have a small courtesy curtain (just a few paper towel sheets) around her tank to keep unwanted light out from most areas.

 

[The Snark]

If it helps at all, this is the specific kind I purchased.

Not at all. This image only shows a few of the LEDs on the market and doesn't go into the intensity at all. Your LED may be zeroed in on the broad UV center or just happen to have a tiny bit of the UV spectrum. Or anything in between.

And take into account one very common business practice. Specific products are tested and if they fail the parameters are dumped on the market. They are bought up and put up for resale loosely matching whatever criteria that will sell fast. In other words, reject or junk LEDs in this case. Nothing goes into the bin or trash can that can be sold somewhere. And big box stores don't give a rodents rectum about quality or authenticity.
= Reputable Lab certified or a shot in the dark.



Example: Square D Schneider electric panel as found all over the US, right? Nope. Fake. Schneider doesn't sell in Thailand. They technically do, but the real deal costs about $300. That one cost me $25. Incidentally, just as good as the real deal and accepted the same Stablok breakers.


Bottom line: Made in China = ?????

 

[embryolk]

I'll likely be keeping them off until I can find for sure what they're putting out. Turns out it's pretty typical for manufacturers to not include additional information on these, so you really only have to go off of the wattage of the bulb but that's 100% not reliable most of the time. I might also look into building something that can keep the UV fully away from her. From other posts I've read on here it looks like controlled exposure to lights like these won't hurt, but it's probably not safe to have it on for more than an hour or two if they're in the direct path. Thank you for the tidbits though

 

[viper69]

I got a female vinegaroon last year and she's been doing great! I love taking care of her and watching her move about her terrarium (before anyone asks, it's got everything she needs, fine size, good deep substrate, hides, etc). I recently started using LED color lights in my room while I decorate it Halloween-style (it's my favorite holiday), and today I picked up LED backlights to use as the main light source. These do not give off heat, they're explicitly decoration only.... buuuut I'm a little worried about if it could potentially hurt or affect her in some way. I can live without them, as cool as they are, so if anyone has an idea on if they're harmful at all I'd appreciate some input so I can rest easy on keeping them or not. Bonus points if you have a credible source to read up on this topic too. Thanks!

a seasoned scorpion keeper told me here that UV light weakens scorpion exoskeletons.. maybe think twice here

 

[embryolk]

After prodding around the area I keep her in, looks like she's actually in a great position to not get hit by much of the light at all. I've added a few new layers to her privacy curtain for extra measure and I'll be looking into something I can fix upward to prevent any potential exposure from above her tank. I'll still be restricting how long I have it on for, cause surely it cant be that good for me either, but I'm going to make sure I can figure out what will be safest for her, even if it involves moving her to an entirely different room

 

[The Snark]

Turns out it's pretty typical for manufacturers to not include additional information on these, so you really only have to go off of the wattage of the bulb but that's 100% not reliable most of the time.

If you don't get a data sheet like this you have no idea what you bought. Wattage is meaningless. They usually have a current limiting resistor that can alter the watts by several thousand percent.

 

[Smotzer]

I don’t see it being too much of a problem as long as it’s not focused on her tank in particular but I have never used UV lights on my Thelyphonida or any invert for that matter but a lot of UV lights aren’t always true in that spectrum the same way a lot of LED “grow lights” aren’t full spectrum either.

 

[viper69]

After prodding around the area I keep her in, looks like she's actually in a great position to not get hit by much of the light at all. I've added a few new layers to her privacy curtain for extra measure and I'll be looking into something I can fix upward to prevent any potential exposure from above her tank. I'll still be restricting how long I have it on for, cause surely it cant be that good for me either, but I'm going to make sure I can figure out what will be safest for her, even if it involves moving her to an entirely different room

Why are using UV lights to begin with?
Why use them only to have to set up safeguards to protect an animal in your care?

 

[The Snark]

Why are using UV lights to begin with?
Why use them only to have to set up safeguards to protect an animal in your care?

A fad. Commercially propagated popular trend it seems. Take two examples.
The big (and successful) hydroponics companys. Full spectrum grow lights. A tiny amount of UV is in the spectrum, but by no means a significant amount. Not enough UV present to be a concern for employees working under them 8 hours a day.
Common vegetation environment as in an urban back yard garden. Very little UV present. Forest floor environments as found in the tropics, virtually zilch UV makes its way to the forest floor and cloud cover damping most of that 3 to 6 months of the year.

 

[viper69]

A fad. Commercially propagated popular trend it seems. Take two examples.
The big (and successful) hydroponics companys. Full spectrum grow lights. A tiny amount of UV is in the spectrum, but by no means a significant amount. Not enough UV present to be a concern for employees working under them 8 hours a day.
Common vegetation environment as in an urban back yard garden. Very little UV present. Forest floor environments as found in the tropics, virtually zilch UV makes its way to the forest floor and cloud cover damping most of that 3 to 6 months of the year.

Im asking the OP

 

[bjjpokemon910]

a seasoned scorpion keeper told me here that UV light weakens scorpion exoskeletons.. maybe think twice here

What evidence?

 

[The Snark]

What evidence?

UV is established to alter the DNA which can create multiple issues down the road in a domino effect. Typical example, UV caused DNA alteration sterilizes spores so they cannot perform the reproduction cycle. So weakening exoskeletons is well within the known effects. DNA caused spore damage is the principal purpose of using UV as a sterilizing agent.

 

[bjjpokemon910]

UV is established to alter the DNA which can create multiple issues down the road in a domino effect. Typical example, UV caused DNA alteration sterilizes spores so they cannot perform the reproduction cycle. So weakening exoskeletons is well within the known effects. DNA caused spore damage is the principal purpose of using UV as a sterilizing agent.

Dang

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

UV is established to alter the DNA which can create multiple issues down the road in a domino effect. Typical example, UV caused DNA alteration sterilizes spores so they cannot perform the reproduction cycle. So weakening exoskeletons is well within the known effects. DNA caused spore damage is the principal purpose of using UV as a sterilizing agent.

The damaging effects of ultraviolet radiation on cells and the DNA they contain has nothing to do with whether it can break down or damage the acellular exocuticle. The hardened exocuticle of vinegaroons, scorpions, and other arachnids should act as protection from ultraviolet light. If it doesn't at all, or there is a limit to how much ultraviolet light it can withstand before being damaged, then we should have some sort of documentation to show this instead of taking the word of some guy who heard it from another guy.

 

[The Snark]

@AphonopelmaTX Good point. Is there a DNA generational transference between molts? While not the same, the regrowth of fingernails is or can be affected many years after damage was sustained. This phenomenon has never been fully explained. Ex: though the cuticle fully healed in months my thumbnail splits along the line where I cut the end of my thumb off 40 years ago. Dermatologists cannot explain why. Maybe a DNA analysis of the nail above and below the split line might explain the phenomenon.
How much and how well does UVA penetrate the exoskeleton?? @DaveM Suggestions as to papers from molecular biologists on the properties of UV affecting tissues, directly and indirectly, and generational transference of said effects?

 

[viper69]

What evidence?

Just his words- I didn’t follow up as I don’t keep scorps.

could be true or false.

if uv isn’t needed why risk it?? What’s the downside to not using uv?

 

[The Snark]

Established UV benefits
Triggers vitamin D
Helps some skin conditions
Helps moods
Helps some animals’ vision
Aids some insects’ navigation
Useful for disinfection and sterilisation

Established UV hazards
Causes skin cancer
Causes sunburn
Damages immune system
Ages skin
Is an oxidzer - bleaching agent.