Keeping Halloween and Black Tiger Hissing Cockroach males together?

[BeginnerKeeper]

I'm hoping to purchase two Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches soon, with the intent of getting only males, since I am not planning to breed them, but keep them as pets. I've been looking at buying from HoneyBees100 on Amazon (not sure how great an Amazon seller will be, but they have good reviews and respond to customer questions and complaints, plus they are the only seller I've seen selling constantly rather than intermittently). I'd like to get one male Halloween hisser (Elliptorhina javanica) and one male black tiger hisser (Gromphadorhina grandidieri), since I would be able to tell the little guys apart easily that way. Since I've heard the Halloween cockroaches are a little more fragile than the black tigers, though, and since male hissing cockroaches headbutt each other, I'm a little worried about keeping them together. Could I keep them together in a glass 5.5 gallon tank with a screened lid? There would be plenty of hiding spaces for them to get away from each other and cut down on fighting and stress. I'd be happy for any advice on this subject, or really any other element of keeping hissing cockroaches! Thanks all!

 

[goonius]

I'm hoping to purchase two Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches soon, with the intent of getting only males, since I am not planning to breed them, but keep them as pets. I've been looking at buying from HoneyBees100 on Amazon (not sure how great an Amazon seller will be, but they have good reviews and respond to customer questions and complaints, plus they are the only seller I've seen selling constantly rather than intermittently). I'd like to get one male Halloween hisser (Elliptorhina javanica) and one male black tiger hisser (Gromphadorhina grandidieri), since I would be able to tell the little guys apart easily that way. Since I've heard the Halloween cockroaches are a little more fragile than the black tigers, though, and since male hissing cockroaches headbutt each other, I'm a little worried about keeping them together. Could I keep them together in a glass 5.5 gallon tank with a screened lid? There would be plenty of hiding spaces for them to get away from each other and cut down on fighting and stress. I'd be happy for any advice on this subject, or really any other element of keeping hissing cockroaches! Thanks all!

Please don't buy from this seller. He's awful, and somehow he gets Amazon to delete all negative reviews about him -- I know. I left him a bad review that 'disappeared.'

He ships in just a small box with a tiny bit of shredded paper through USPS, the hissers are loose inside the box. The poor hissers got beat all up, and although we asked for two males, we got a male and female. The male was DOA. The female keeps aborting her babies prematurely and has never seemed quite right. Her antennae were broken off in shipping.

Like you, I thought the good reviews suggested this would be safe to take a chance with. I was heartbroken by how awful the handling and care of these hissers was. Hopefully I can save you making the same mistake I did.

 

[BeginnerKeeper]

That's awful! I'm so sorry you had to see those hissers mistreated. But thank you so much! I definitely won't buy from HoneyBees100 now. I hoped I would get some feedback on that specific seller, and even though what you are saying is terrible, it's still helping me and hopefully keeping more people from supporting his practices. I really appreciate it. Off to Roach Crossing, then, whenever they have some hissers available. The invertebrates I've gotten from that seller before came in well cared for and healthy, and that's more important than being able to get them whenever I want.

 

[goonius]

I'm hoping to purchase two Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches soon, with the intent of getting only males, since I am not planning to breed them, but keep them as pets. I've been looking at buying from HoneyBees100 on Amazon (not sure how great an Amazon seller will be, but they have good reviews and respond to customer questions and complaints, plus they are the only seller I've seen selling constantly rather than intermittently). I'd like to get one male Halloween hisser (Elliptorhina javanica) and one male black tiger hisser (Gromphadorhina grandidieri), since I would be able to tell the little guys apart easily that way. Since I've heard the Halloween cockroaches are a little more fragile than the black tigers, though, and since male hissing cockroaches headbutt each other, I'm a little worried about keeping them together. Could I keep them together in a glass 5.5 gallon tank with a screened lid? There would be plenty of hiding spaces for them to get away from each other and cut down on fighting and stress. I'd be happy for any advice on this subject, or really any other element of keeping hissing cockroaches! Thanks all!

As to your second question: We do keep our single E javanica (which I will add are illegal to keep in most states -- you may want to look into that) in the same sterilite box as 12 other G. portentosa, a mix of males and females -- some nearing maturing, some still nymphs. They seem to be doing well together. We plan to separate them out once they become mature to prevent cross-breeding, but something I found interesting is that the female E javanica accepted the G portentosa as enclosure-mates readily. We had tried placing her in an enclosure with B. dubia females prior to this, and that seemed to traumatize her, so we separated them again. This is all to say that you may not know until you try but it seems possible that hissing roaches do accept other species as being alike enough to bunk with.

 

[goonius]

That's awful! I'm so sorry you had to see those hissers mistreated. But thank you so much! I definitely won't buy from HoneyBees100 now. I hoped I would get some feedback on that specific seller, and even though what you are saying is terrible, it's still helping me and hopefully keeping more people from supporting his practices. I really appreciate it. Off to Roach Crossing, then, whenever they have some hissers available. The invertebrates I've gotten from that seller before came in well cared for and healthy, and that's more important than being able to get them whenever I want.

Good to know about your experience with roach crossing. I would love to have more E javanica, and they do seem really difficult to come by. I'm always keeping my eyes open for sellers who may potentially have them. They are really beautiful roaches.

 

[goliathusdavid]

I strongly recommend against ever housing different hisser species together, even if they all appear to be juveniles. I have seen these two species hybridize even when being kept in separate enclosures in the same room, and that was in a containment facility. I just wouldn't risk it. They hybridize beyond readily, and that is why so few true strains of Gromphadorina portentosa are left. Keeping them together prior to maturity may seem harmless, but it can be tricky to actually know how many molts an individual has actually gone through, especially given size variability in both species. Not at all meant as a judgement, simply my personal experience and advice.

It is also important to address the legality question: @goonius is correct in that it is illegal to receive E. javanica from another state without the proper PPQ 526 permits. I am not, however, completely clear on whether or not possession of these roaches in itself is illegal without permitting (as is the case with exotic millipedes/gastropods/phasmids etc). To be completely honest, the laws surrounding roaches are often quite grey, so the best way to stay within them is to either a) pursue permitting or b) stick with the many deregulated roach species.

 

[goonius]

I strongly recommend against ever housing different hisser species together, even if they all appear to be juveniles. I have seen these two species hybridize even when being kept in separate enclosures in the same room, and that was in a containment facility. I just wouldn't risk it. They hybridize beyond readily, and that is why so few true strains of Gromphadorina portentosa are left. Keeping them together prior to maturity may seem harmless, but it can be tricky to actually know how many molts an individual has actually gone through, especially given size variability in both species. Not at all meant as a judgement, simply my personal experience and advice.

It is also important to address the legality question: @goonius is correct in that it is illegal to receive E. javanica from another state without the proper PPQ 526 permits. I am not, however, completely clear on whether or not possession of these roaches in itself is illegal without permitting (as is the case with exotic millipedes/gastropods/phasmids etc). To be completely honest, the laws surrounding roaches are often quite grey, so the best way to stay within them is to either a) pursue permitting or b) stick with the many deregulated roach species.

Thanks. I appreciate the info. I guess this means I need to separate them. I know observing a roach as being happy probably seems silly, but she does seem happier with the others. Happy, meaning she isn’t hiding all the time and seems more active/ has a better appetite.

What are your thoughts on keeping different species together when absolutely certain they are all the same sex?

 

[goliathusdavid]

Thanks. I appreciate the info. I guess this means I need to separate them. I know observing a roach as being happy probably seems silly, but she does seem happier with the others. Happy, meaning she isn’t hiding all the time and seems more active/ has a better appetite.

What are your thoughts on keeping different species together when absolutely certain they are all the same sex?

Observing a roach as happy is not silly at all! And given how social these species are, I definitely think keeping her with another female would be beneficial to quality of life. The whole metrics of welfare in inverts issues is really interesting-- honestly the best I can look for from most of the time is eating (as you said), healthy molts, and lots and lots of mating when applicable. There's actually a fascinating whole discussion in a lot of behavioral research right now about how to better measure the invertebrate equivalent of happiness (which in some cases, even involves some of the same chemicals associated with the state in humans). No one could have possibly thought it a few decades ago, but if you want to make a career around captive invert welfare and behavior, you probably could. It's certainly something a lot of zoo welfare\behaviorist people I know are starting to consider in whole new ways.

I don't think keeping different hisser species of the same sex would cause any problems whatsoever, and in the case of males it would certainly make for some interesting versions of their mildly hilarious fighting