Jumper dead after eating-cricket virus?

[BugggGirl]

My very small juvenile phidippus audax has been active, healthy as I can tell, and been raised on fruitflies, with the exception of one very small waxworm tiny enough for him to go after. I ran out of fruitflies and the waxxies I bought were too large for him, so I opted to get a couple pinhead crickets from petco. I was thrilled to see that he finally caught and was eating the tiny cricket, that was about the same size as him. All seemed good. The next evening, 24 hours after eating he was having difficulties moving. He was on top of his "cave" when he attempted to crawl down off of it. One of his hind feet got caught in some of his own webbing. He wasnt strong enough to get it loose himself so i helped with a tiny paint brush. Then he fell off the cave and onto the bottom of the enclosure on his back. He was unable to flip himself over. I got him right side up and noticed he was barely moving and his two rear legs on the left side were starting to curl under a little. He was becoming paralyzed. Within just a couple of minutes the poor little guy died. I dont understand it. Like I said, the only thing different was the cricket he ate 24 hours prior. If the feeder was infected with the cricket paralysing virus, is it possible that it killed my jumping spider? Can it be passed on to other invertebrates that consume it? (I shared a photo just so you can see his size)

 

[darkness975]

The cricket could have eaten something bad

 

[The Snark]

The rough rule for diagnosis of a condition in order of probability is Pre Existing Condition(s), toxin, principally ingestion or exposure, bacteria, or other (environmental issues et al). Viruses usually enter in after a 24-48 hour or longer time frame - incubation period. PECs, causative or contributive, can accelerate the time frame of morbidity.
(Pathology - morbidity guidelines - initial assessment)

 

[Reluctant Widow Mother]

My very small juvenile phidippus audax has been active, healthy as I can tell, and been raised on fruitflies, with the exception of one very small waxworm tiny enough for him to go after. I ran out of fruitflies and the waxxies I bought were too large for him, so I opted to get a couple pinhead crickets from petco. I was thrilled to see that he finally caught and was eating the tiny cricket, that was about the same size as him. All seemed good. The next evening, 24 hours after eating he was having difficulties moving. He was on top of his "cave" when he attempted to crawl down off of it. One of his hind feet got caught in some of his own webbing. He wasnt strong enough to get it loose himself so i helped with a tiny paint brush. Then he fell off the cave and onto the bottom of the enclosure on his back. He was unable to flip himself over. I got him right side up and noticed he was barely moving and his two rear legs on the left side were starting to curl under a little. He was becoming paralyzed. Within just a couple of minutes the poor little guy died. I dont understand it. Like I said, the only thing different was the cricket he ate 24 hours prior. If the feeder was infected with the cricket paralysing virus, is it possible that it killed my jumping spider? Can it be passed on to other invertebrates that consume it? (I shared a photo just so you can see his size)

I'm sorry about your jumper.

My first black widow died after eating a cricket from PetSmart. I always assumed it was because she was too fat and fell, but maybe something else was going on? I've been feeding my current adult widows on nothing but crickets from PetSmart and so far, everyone has been fine.

I'll watch this thread to see what people think.

Again, sorry about your little bold jumper.

 

[that1ocelot]

I'm sorry about your jumper.

My first black widow died after eating a cricket from PetSmart. I always assumed it was because she was too fat and fell, but maybe something else was going on? I've been feeding my current adult widows on nothing but crickets from PetSmart and so far, everyone has been fine.

I'll watch this thread to see what people think.

Again, sorry about your little bold jumper.

I find that PetSmart crickets die super fast compared to crickets I get from my other, independent pet stores.

Saying that, it is banded vs brown crickets but they die FAST.
Do you find the same thing?

 

[Reluctant Widow Mother]

I find that PetSmart crickets die super fast compared to crickets I get from my other, independent pet stores.

Saying that, it is banded vs brown crickets but they die FAST.
Do you find the same thing?

Well, the ones I buy die fast, but that's because I don't keep them on hand. They all go to the spiders. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[darkness975]

Chain pet store house crickets are usually garbage. Get banded crickets.

 

[Reluctant Widow Mother]

Chain pet store house crickets are usually garbage. Get banded crickets.

I live in a rural area, so I don't have much of a choice. There's one local pet store. I worked there three decades ago, but they've gone downhill. They're worse than PetSmart by a wide margin.

I used to keep crickets on-hand for other animals, but they get out. Their chirping has kept me awake nights.

I've eyeballed the hornworms at PetSmart, but they're a bit expensive for feeding spiders.

 

[darkness975]

I live in a rural area, so I don't have much of a choice. There's one local pet store. I worked there three decades ago, but they've gone downhill. They're worse than PetSmart by a wide margin.

I used to keep crickets on-hand for other animals, but they get out. Their chirping has kept me awake nights.

I've eyeballed the hornworms at PetSmart, but they're a bit expensive for feeding spiders.

You could get banded crickets from someplace online. They're far hardier and live longer. Just a thought!

 

[Reluctant Widow Mother]

You could get banded crickets from someplace online. They're far hardier and live longer. Just a thought!

True, but living with noisy crickets in a small apartment isn't fun. I've done it before. And there are always a few that get out. I could feed all the males to the widows first. But if I buy them small, I won't know the sexes, will I? This is a bit of a quandary.

I just read banded crickets are quieter. Dare I give them a try?

 

[darkness975]

True, but living with noisy crickets in a small apartment isn't fun. I've done it before. And there are always a few that get out. I could feed all the males to the widows first. But if I buy them small, I won't know the sexes, will I? This is a bit of a quandary.

You can start to see the sexual dimorphism pretty early on. The ovipositor starts to show by the second or third molt. It manifests as a brown bulge in the center of the backside that grows larger with each successive molt. I always feed the males first as the noise drives me nuts too.

Different species but a good example here: https://www.enasco.com/medias/LM008...FlYmExYzdmNmUzZWEwYjIyNDk3MjAwNWI2ZWJjNDc2NDA

 

[Stylopidae]

There is no evidence, to my knowledge, that CrPV can infect spiders.

Since the outbreak, pet stores have switched to a species of cricket which is resistant (maybe even immune; it's been awhile since I've read the papers) to the virus.

 

[CRX]

This is called DKS, or dyskinetic syndrome (or maybe CrPV in crickets). I lost my entire first collection of tarantulas to this. No one really knows for sure what causes it, OR exactly what it even is. I originally also thought it was from diseased crickets, but over the years I've decided the most likely culprit is simply poisoning. Somehow they got into or were exposed to something that was toxic to them. I would wager a bet that is what happened to OPs spider- somehow it got exposed to a toxin. In my case, I believe it may have been flea medication from off my dogs fur.

 

[The Snark]

@CRX I fully agree. Humanity has become complacent and desensitized to a world now filled with environmental toxins. Simply put, a shift in the paradigm.

Where this really hit home was three of the four greatest toxic hazards firefighters encounter today didn't exist (in anywhere near the concentrations if at all) 100 years ago. Hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen chloride and polychlorinated biphenyls.
We are living in chemical soup and cloud and are taking it for granted.

 

[The Snark]

@CRX @Stylopidae A little clarification is in order here. DKS has become a catch phrase. Diving back into my paramedic books the common condition is referred to as chorea. The more specific term is dyskinesia and DKS a very specific condition which cannot be diagnosed without clinical tests.
When a paramedic undertakes a field assessment of a patient we were first allowed to call any unusual neurological manifestations as potential chorea or chorea like symptoms. Then advancements in field assessments allowed the use of the term dyskinesia.

In turn, dyskinesia can be caused by numerous different conditions. Psychogenic shock and head trauma being the most common. The former, eyes rolling back and occasionally disassociated muscular movements and the latter most often noted by posturing.

I mention all this as possible dyskinesia is as far as a non clinical series of tests and/or assessments can go. Further diagnostics can ordinarily only be performed by physicians