Is it legal to sell Jumping Spiders (P. Regius) in NYC?

[Olga8Legs]

Can anyone help me with this? I recently got 2 P. Regius females and both have laid egg sacs, one of which has hatched. I'd like to make a website and sell the babies once they're old enough, but I live in Brooklyn. NYC has a law against selling any kind of venomous spiders, it specifically says "Tarantulas, black widows, and other venomous spiders" but like do jumpers fall under that umbrella? They do produce venom but they're pretty much harmless. Don't practically all spiders produce venom? I would call and ask the city but I don't even know who would know that info! Thanks in advance! Also I see spiders on NYC CL every day but maybe a website would call too much attention. Thanks in advance!

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Do the laws even matter there anymore? I thought they did away with arrests, & bail, etc, etc...

But if you REALLY care, ask for a comprehensive list. One wouldn't THINK jumping spiders would be on it, but nothing there has to make sense. The only thing that might be worth double checking is if any part of their range touches NY State at all; the entire state is VERY sensitive about dealings with species it considers native.

 

[jbooth]

The only thing that might be worth double checking is if any part of their range touches NY State at all

I doubt that even matters anymore... It could live on the moon and if they want to stop someone from doing something, it lives in NY now... or Cali

 

[Olga8Legs]

I wanted to make a website selling them but I was afraid that would garner too much attention. I might just sell them on CL, I see tarantulas on there all the time which are totally illegal, in fact saw a baby alligator on there once, someone was feeding it a cooked shrimp! I would ask about the list of spiders, but I'm not sure who to ask. I guess I could call 311?

 

[jbooth]

I wanted to make a website selling them but I was afraid that would garner too much attention. I might just sell them on CL, I see tarantulas on there all the time which are totally illegal, in fact saw a baby alligator on there once, someone was feeding it a cooked shrimp! I would ask about the list of spiders, but I'm not sure who to ask. I guess I could call 311?

Generally, unless it is protected, you can sell it all you want within state lines. I looked into it for roaches a bit, and that gets crazy, you have to fill out a form per species per state you ship to, I believe. Not sure about spiders, and I'm having a brainfart as to which unconstitutional agency it was you have to do the forms at even right now. USDA I think.

 

[Arachnopets]

you can sell it all you want within state lines.

This is NOT true within NYC.


The State of NY is different than the City of NY, when it comes to what is legal (or illegal) with owning and selling venomous arachnids. In NYC (all 5 boroughs - Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx, Staten Island and Queens), it is illegal to own and sell venomous arachnids.

Illegal Animal · NYC311

Click on the drop down menu for both, as they clearly explain what is allowed and what is not, for both owning and selling.

Under " Animals Not Allowed To Be Kept As Pets " it mentions "Tarantulas, black widows, and other venomous spiders".

Under "Illegal Animal Being Sold" it mentions "By law, wild or illegal animals cannot be sold in New York City".

You could always call USFW. Not sure if they will know, as they are Federal, not State. - https://www.fws.gov/


*Please note that we do not allow the promoting of any illegal activity*

 

[CRX]

Can anyone help me with this? I recently got 2 P. Regius females and both have laid egg sacs, one of which has hatched. I'd like to make a website and sell the babies once they're old enough, but I live in Brooklyn. NYC has a law against selling any kind of venomous spiders, it specifically says "Tarantulas, black widows, and other venomous spiders" but like do jumpers fall under that umbrella? They do produce venom but they're pretty much harmless. Don't practically all spiders produce venom? I would call and ask the city but I don't even know who would know that info! Thanks in advance! Also I see spiders on NYC CL every day but maybe a website would call too much attention. Thanks in advance!

Do you seriously think the government is gonna come after you for selling some spiders, on top of everything else that state is dealing with? I'm not trying to be mean just this sounds absurd to ask lol.

I doubt anyone on the government pet enforcement panel is going to know the difference between regius, and audax (the native lookalike). And yes all spiders are venomous. So that law doesn't even really make sense. It has black widows right after tarantulas. It sounds like it was put together by someone who never interacted with bugs (yes I call spiders bugs, eat me) in their life.

 

[Olga8Legs]

Look I just don't want to be caught up in a web of crime. Seriously though, I could see a situation where I get reported for this and then I have to deal with an investigation or get a fine. I feel like the government/law enforcement loves to bother people for small matters such as this.

 

[The Snark]

Okay @Arachnopets How did you pull the NYC311 right out of the box? Are you sandbagging?

But that aside, it's partly a morality issue. A person can often thread their way between all the statutes which can't possibly cover each and every detail. Thus it drops to the individual level. Simply asking yourself, 'Yes, this is a trivial little issue, but do I really want to group myself in among the major criminal operations?' Err on the side of common sense and caution. Do the right thing.

(Oh listen to Snark AKA Mr. Perfect as, after he wrote that, goes and stands at the window and uses a highly illegal dangerous laser to chase off the squirrels. )

 

[Arachnopets]

Okay @Arachnopets How did you pull the NYC311 right out of the box? Are you sandbagging?

I have no idea what you mean.

it's partly a morality issue.

Wrong. It is simply a legal vs. illegal question. In this specific case, the answer is that it is illegal.

 

[The Snark]

@Arachnopets First, impressive to have on hand a title, statute or law of a particular location. I've spent more than my fair share of the time digging through PCs. Then, yes, the law is quite clear in that case. Speaking more generally, and AB has clearly put it's foot down regarding this aspect, people are always trying to find work-arounds for these laws. Some attorneys specialize in finding loopholes in statutes for their clients. And there are far more loopholes than details that laws can possibly cover. One side effect of this is laws being laid down that border on fascism and it becomes game on for people to play cat and mouse with the statutes. One reason why it can take years for a case to go in front of a judge.

That was my point. Instead of taking the literal wording of a law, look at the overall picture of why the laws were made in the first place. The motivation behind them. In the case of the gray market animal trade a lot of the laws have been written seemingly blanket coverage over reach because of the financial burden placed on a society spent by animal control, health departments, port of entry policing and quite a long list of other expenses that don't just take into account here and now but on into the foreseeable future.
.
So no, your individual spider or cockroach or snake or whatever is not a problem but a massive infestation of them costing huge amounts of time and money all the way to destroying habitats and ecosystems and endangering indigenous wildlife is another matter entirely. The Burmese python, various introduced insects and shell fish, the gypsy moth, the African bee and on and on.

So if a person is able to find a way to work around a law, go the extra mile and take the larger picture into account. Think and act in a responsible manner. The alternative is a country eventually moving towards becoming a police state of wall to wall laws, rules and restrictions.

 

[Arachnopets]

@The Snark Your entire post is completely irrelevant to the OP's question. Stop making it more complicated than it is. It does not matter why. All that matters is that is the law.

 

[The Snark]

@Arachnopets Roughly verbatim what my boss once said: "It's the law, dammit!"
(With one of those burn-you-to-a-crisp stares eloquently stating 'enough of your word salads'.)

 

[Olga8Legs]

I don't think P. Regius could survive in our cold winter temps and cause an infestation or anything. And if I decide to also breed and sell P. Audax it's a native NY species so there'd be no danger.

 

[pocock1899]

Arachnopets is correct. It's illegal. The law is a funny, imprecise thing. When they talk about venomous animals, they include both Taipans and Phidippus. Seems kind of dumb, but most laws of this type were written for people who don't know much about animals, by people who know even less about animals. There is no gray area in this type of wording. If an invert has venom, it's included under the law. There is going to be no discussion with anyone on this, as all they have to do is Google it (which is probably what they will do).

Here is just about the best way this could play out. Someone sees your selling those cute little spiders. They are offended that you keep them in a cramped container. They make a call...

You get a citation for this (happens ALL the time to people who think that no one is watching online sales). The fine is a couple of hundred dollars, or you can pay a lawyer a couple of hundred dollars to get the charges dropped. Either way, you are the big loser here. If you want to give them to friends, you are pretty safe. But if you want to sell them, all it takes is one person to make a call. I would not mess with the animal cops in NYC. They have zero sense of humor and you are absolutely guaranteed of a citation if they show up at your door.

I work daily with US Fish and Wildlife Officers. People call them over the smallest infractions (real and imagined) you could think of. While on that subject, if you were to be found owning an illegal spider (yes, I'm talking P. regius held illegally in NYC) and offering or selling them over state lines, that is an honest-to-God violation of the Lacey Act. That's a felony. Sure, the charge might not stick, but how much do you think lawyer fees are to defend you, pre-trial, for a felony?

Dude, this is just a bad idea. Sounds good on paper, but the downside could be seriously bad. JMO.

 

[Wolf135]

Nobody is going to arrest you for selling jumping spiders, not to mention the police are too busy fighting true crimes out on the streets.

 

[Arachnopets]

Nobody is going to arrest you for selling jumping spiders, not to mention the police are too busy fighting true crimes out on the streets.

Did you read the post right before yours, by @pocock1899 ? Did you read mine? If you did, please go back and read them again.

 

[DaveM]

Ummmm.........................
So do you think the penalties are very severe?

I understand that some people seem to enjoy collecting coins or stamps or baseball cards. Do you think those hobbies could be any fun?

 

[Wolf135]

Did you read the post right before yours, by @pocock1899 ? Did you read mine? If you did, please go back and read them again.

Just read them, selling jumping spiders should be legal if they're not invasive also op could call 911 and find out the local laws.

 

[Arachnopets]

Just read them, selling jumping spiders should be legal if they're not invasive also op could call 911 and find out the local laws.

It doesn't matter what we think should be. All that matters is what actually is. In addition, calling 911 is also illegal, if what you are calling about it not an actual emergency. Maybe you meant 411?