intergenerational inbreeding in roaches

[musihuto]

so my question is twofold:
i) are the negative effects of intergenerational inbreeding in roaches really that serious?
ii) if the effects of intergenerational inbreeding in roaches really were that serious, then wouldn't they have evolved some behavioural adaptation to avoid it?

thanks!
- munis

P.S. if anyone has any papers on the subject, or knows where they might be found, that would be awesome.

 

[Crotalus]

I had a colony of false death head going for 7+ years and never had problems. Nothing I could notice anyway.

 

[recluse]

I have had an N. cinerea colony going for over four years and so far have not noticed any changes, just my observations.

 

[musihuto]

awesome.
would you guys happen to have an estimate on the number of adults in your colonies?

thanks!
- munis

 

[recluse]

I have several thousand right now, I use N. cinerea exclusively for feeding, I have way to many to feed off.

 

[Crotalus]

awesome.
would you guys happen to have an estimate on the number of adults in your colonies?

thanks!
- munis

Hundreds. But I was down to only a few adults once but managed to save them and soon the colony was back in numbers.

 

[Aquanut]

I have a Discoid colony thats almost 4 years old. It started from 12 nymphs to adults, and is at least 2000 now. No problems that I've seen.

 

[the_frog_kid]

there are negative effects but they are so small you wont notice unless you are studing them like i do
my friend had a strain of giganteus that was "white winged" had no dark pigment on the wings
not a-melanistic not lucistic not albino
if you have very limited genetics roaches will "stunt" meening they get smaller
some of mine did that befor
thats why im pround to have very geed genetics
i have dubia from a certen californian supplier they are less than a inch long
but my german dubia are over 2 inches
very weired
i guess the cali supplier started with a very limited amount




thanx froggy

 

[bugmankeith]

Any pictures of the "white winged" roaches?

 

[the_frog_kid]

no but i saw them first hand
i will ask if he has any and tell him to post them here
i am working on identifing a eublaberus sp.
they were sold to me as distanti but they are massive and have black legs insted of orange




thanx froggy

 

[xelda]

I think the size difference is based more on husbandry. If you don't maintain healthy, well-hydrated colonies, the roaches will be much smaller. So when you get new stock from a different source, of course they're going to look huge in comparison--they're coming from someone who takes care of his or her roaches differently. I bet after you keep the new stock for awhile under the same care, they'll end up looking small too.

Now here's something else to think about. If having a limited gene pool poses such a problem, how do you explain the success of parthenogenetic insects? Or of social insects that don't mate outside of the colony?

 

[Bayushi]

you have to keep in mind that even in the wild, roaches live in such close proximity that there has to be inbreeding going on. it's been happening since man started walking upright and yet roaches are still around and will still be around long after man has died off. So you have to think that inbreeding does very little harm to them on the whole.

 

[the_frog_kid]

well some things i cant explain
the new eublaberus have been in my care for a few generations under the same husbandry as the others
im not a idiot you know
everytime i say something you guys think im a moron
im gettin sick of it
as for parthanigenic roaches that is a whole differant idea
i have no clue since no one does
its the same with ants
how does it work that males and queens come from fertilized eggs and workers come from unfertilized eggs
there still is no explanation that i know of




thanx froggy

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

How many thousands of years have silkworm moths been in culture? Roach genes are less subject to drift than almost any other organism.

 

[the_frog_kid]

hmm
this is just my conclution but i also have a strain of hissers that ive had 4 years and the keep gettin bigger
about 30% bigger by now
i guess how i am culturing them
but then again silkworms in culture are completly differant that wild ones




thanx froggy

 

[bugmankeith]

There are no wild Bombyx Mori anymore, and the domestic ones we know of no longer fly, let alone walk very much.

Cant say what would happen if someone raised them in a greenhouse for many years in safety without predators.

Would they develop wild characteristics, or not? Nobody knows as of now.

I once put silkworms on my mulberry tree knowing they wont go anywhere, they lived for about 2 weeks, through rain,wind, and drought, but the yellow jackets eventually picked them off like berries.

 

[the_frog_kid]

yes they have been cultured for so long they are a new specie
i forget what they were from
i used to know when i bred them but i have forgotten:8o

i know people who have put them on the introduced mullberry that live there
didnt work out
they are so inbred they just fall off lol

what ever i dont really care eh lol




thanx froggy

 

[bugmankeith]

I guess we found your weakness, you love roaches but dont like silkworms.