Humidity question for Corn Snake

[Bliply]

Hi All,
I just purchased my first snake named Valkyrie (anerythristic corn) and am doing as much reading up as I can but wondered if you guys might know. I have her in my old fish tank (drained )and have noticed condensation building up on the inside of the tank edges near the bottom. There's no ventilation holes in the top of the tank and wondered:

Is the condensation/humidity a problem for her?

Should I cut some holes in the tank cover and mesh over or will this let all the heat out?

Here's my other thread showing pics of her and the tank.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=58683


Thanks in advance for any help

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[Bliply]

I opened the tank tonight to let the humidity go down a bit, and the condensation cleared in about 1/2 an hour - don't worry, I didn't take my eyes off her! - so I guess vents are the way to go.....unless this will let the heat out?

Cheers for your help guys,

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[pharaoh2653]

a little humidity shouldnt be a problem but you should have more ventilation on your tank, an all screen lid would be my suggestion and you could then put that light on top of the screen so that it wouldnt be in the tank.

 

[Mushroom Spore]

a little humidity shouldnt be a problem but you should have more ventilation on your tank, an all screen lid would be my suggestion and you could then put that light on top of the screen so that it wouldnt be in the tank.

Seconding both of these, as quickly as possible. No ventilation is bad for the snake and encourages bacteria and fungal growth. Corn snakes only need "low to moderate" humidity (they're native to places like Tennessee and Kentucky, not the jungle). Going too far outside a snake's healthy range (combined with bad ventilation, especially) is going to put you on the track for respiratory infections, scale rot, all sorts of nastiness, as well as what will end up growing inside the tank.

And yes, to answer the question from the other thread, snakes will DEFINITELY burn themselves if you leave a heat source directly inside the cage. This is why "hot rocks" cause so many hideous injuries. Because of the way cold-blooded animals work, often they cannot tell that they are being burned until it is too late.

I would actually get rid of the lamp entirely and buy an under-tank heat mat. It should cover about 1/3 of one end of the tank. Corn snakes do not particularly need *light* like non-nocturnal lizards that need UV and calcium and all that, just a heat source. I don't know if they're as nocturnal as ball pythons, but regardless you can't leave a light on 24/7 without upsetting the snake. A UTH will keep it from getting cold at night.

What are you using as substrate? It looks like gravel or some other loose substance. Gravel, cedar, pine, fir, and sand can all be pretty bad for snakes in general, not just corns. Some of these are prone to bacteria growth. Cedar and pine and fir are actually toxic to small animals. I had my ball python on sheets of washable reptile carpet for six months, then switched to aspen when I moved him to his new twenty-gallon home.

No matter what your substrate, if it's anything that comes in "pieces" (ie, anything but one sheet of reptile carpet), you need to make sure you don't feed the snake in the tank. You didn't mention if you do or not, but this is vital so I'm going to say it anyhow. Basically they can swallow bits of substrate with the mouse by accident and then you risk choking, impaction, and all that good stuff. Your baby could probably fit in an empty poptart box with his mouse, or a rubbermaid tub if you have one. Or you could just do what I've started doing, put a large plastic tupperware lid in there with the mouse on it. The snake can eat at its leisure, and you can be sure the mouse won't get substrate stuck to it.

Lastly, I am going to have to say that that is really way too big an enclosure for a snake that size. While they are fairly active snakes and do need some room, sometimes too much space will make them (especially young ones) feel intimidated and exposed, and that can cause problems too. It's generally recommended to house corn snakes in a ten-gallon enclosure until they outgrow it, then move up to a 20-gallon or so. You should also get some hide boxes or caves just barely big enough for the snake to coil up in, they love a nice snug little spot. Yours may prefer to burrow in the substrate instead, but it can't hurt to try.

Best of luck with your new snakey, she's a pretty little thing, and so tiny! My Rorschach (the ball python) was about that length when I got him...only about three or four times as fat.

EDIT: Also, what's the temp range in the tank?

 

[Bliply]

Hey guys,
Thanks so much for the responses and advice, especially for taking so much time Mushroom Spore

I was thinking of making a mesh lid today at work, just need to pick it up from a hardware store and mod it to fit.
I have a heat mat underneath the right third of the tank (you can just make out the cable on the pic at the bottom) as well as the overhead heat light. I was under the impression they needed that to bask in as it were? Would the heat mat suffice alone? The room it's in isn't the warmest at night.
The substrate is aspen chips, the pic makes it quite hard to see, but I'm definately going to take your advice about the feeding on tupperware lid as that makes alot of sense, thanks I've fed her only once so far and she gobbled up the small fluff whilst standing up (as it were) about an inch from the substrate.
Yeah I wondered about the tank being too big as I've been reading that, but she loves to burn around in it, doesn't seem to have any exposure issues I'm really only using it as it was a freebie and I couldn't pass it up
OH AND... there's another one in there now too!! I bought my girlfriend a Motley Corn today as she was miffed because her Mexican Red Knee Tarantula isn't as fun It's a male about the same age, lovely markings. I'll post a pic later.
There's a half log in there that has a good curl up area underneath it, but she's so busy she only goes in it for a couple hours a day. The male's not as busy so far but it is his first night in the tank.
I'm going to go back to the shop on Saturday and look at proper Vivs, they have loads and they're not overly expensive.

Oh and the tank temp is a constant 85 at the warm end.

Again thanks a ton for the advice, really appreciated.

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[Mushroom Spore]

I was thinking of making a mesh lid today at work, just need to pick it up from a hardware store and mod it to fit.

Excellent. Just be very very cautious about securing it. A pet store should have aquarium clips or something. Snakes are wicked escape artists, my Rorschach's one and only escape was through less than half an inch of space where he'd pushed his latched lid up just slightly...and if you've ever seen how fat a ball python is, it'd shock you too. A teeny corn could probably do some insane stunts.

(I was lucky, all he did when he got out was get cold and scared and crawl into bed with me looking for body heat. Woke up at 6 AM on a Saturday to a snake trying to burrow under my leg. Boy was he grounded. )

I have a heat mat underneath the right third of the tank (you can just make out the cable on the pic at the bottom) as well as the overhead heat light. I was under the impression they needed that to bask in as it were? Would the heat mat suffice alone? The room it's in isn't the warmest at night.

A heat mat should be fine. I didn't realize you had that AND a lamp, heh. They can take temps as low as 70 or so on the non-heated area of the tank...and if the room gets too cold, they'll just scoot on over to the heater. No, they don't need to "bask" at all, they're mostly nocturnal and do not have the same UV needs as daytime herps like iguanas and bearded dragons and things.

OH AND... there's another one in there now too!! I bought my girlfriend a Motley Corn today as she was miffed because her Mexican Red Knee Tarantula isn't as fun It's a male about the same age, lovely markings. I'll post a pic later.

This isn't a very good idea. For one thing, new snakes should be quarantined for a month or two to make sure they aren't carrying anything that your other snake/s could catch. For another, there is a huge array of problems that you risk housing snakes together at all. There are people who do it and have no problems. There are also many people who do it and end up with stressed or sick or non-feeding or cannibalized or pregnant (and females that get pregnant too young can become eggbound) snakes. If one gets sick or regurgitates, you won't be able to know which snake needs help, and the other will probably get sick as well. If there's ever an escape, you'll probably lose both through the same escape route.

It may look like the snakes enjoy each other's company if they end up sharing a hiding spot...but really, they're only both there because it's a good hiding spot. They aren't particularly social animals and won't miss one another if you seperate them.

There's a half log in there that has a good curl up area underneath it, but she's so busy she only goes in it for a couple hours a day. The male's not as busy so far but it is his first night in the tank.

In a tank that big, you need way more hiding spaces. Even in a ten-gallon, you need one hide on the warm end and one on the cool end, so they don't have to choose between their temperature needs and feeling safe. In a huge living area, you also have the "oh god I'm out in the open going somewhere OH GOD SOMETHING WILL GET ME" instinct to deal with, so they need more things to duck under/into as they go about their business.

I'm going to go back to the shop on Saturday and look at proper Vivs, they have loads and they're not overly expensive.

This is probably the best course of action. A couple ten-gallons shouldn't run you up too badly. If you're still keen on using that big free tank (and it is a hella nice tank), you could add to your reptile family something that DOES need the space. Bearded dragons are supposed to be like the puppy dogs of the reptile world, and while they don't get terribly large they need tons of space to zoom around. I can't remember their exact needs off the top of my head, or if you can cohabit them, but Google should give you all you could want in no time flat.

 

[Bliply]

Excellent. Just be very very cautious about securing it. A pet store should have aquarium clips or something. Snakes are wicked escape artists, my Rorschach's one and only escape was through less than half an inch of space where he'd pushed his latched lid up just slightly...and if you've ever seen how fat a ball python is, it'd shock you too. A teeny corn could probably do some insane stunts.

(I was lucky, all he did when he got out was get cold and scared and crawl into bed with me looking for body heat. Woke up at 6 AM on a Saturday to a snake trying to burrow under my leg. Boy was he grounded. )

That's really funny... Prodigal son returns...

A heat mat should be fine. I didn't realize you had that AND a lamp, heh. They can take temps as low as 70 or so on the non-heated area of the tank...and if the room gets too cold, they'll just scoot on over to the heater. No, they don't need to "bask" at all, they're mostly nocturnal and do not have the same UV needs as daytime herps like iguanas and bearded dragons and things.

That's cool (excuse the pun) to know. I've read that people put long cardboard tubes down the length of the tank with holes cut along it so the snake can choose a warm or cool bit and still have a hideaway, sounds like a good idea, but I'd have to cover it over with substrate

This isn't a very good idea. For one thing, new snakes should be quarantined for a month or two to make sure they aren't carrying anything that your other snake/s could catch. For another, there is a huge array of problems that you risk housing snakes together at all. There are people who do it and have no problems. There are also many people who do it and end up with stressed or sick or non-feeding or cannibalized or pregnant (and females that get pregnant too young can become eggbound) snakes. If one gets sick or regurgitates, you won't be able to know which snake needs help, and the other will probably get sick as well. If there's ever an escape, you'll probably lose both through the same escape route.

It may look like the snakes enjoy each other's company if they end up sharing a hiding spot...but really, they're only both there because it's a good hiding spot. They aren't particularly social animals and won't miss one another if you seperate them.

Yeah I've just aquired a brilliant book all about cornsnakes (Kathy and Bill Love) finally I hear you say ;P gotta start somewhere... It says in there it's ok until they reach about 2 foot, but understandably I wasn't thinking about diseases etc, again admittedly an amateur.

In a tank that big, you need way more hiding spaces. Even in a ten-gallon, you need one hide on the warm end and one on the cool end, so they don't have to choose between their temperature needs and feeling safe. In a huge living area, you also have the "oh god I'm out in the open going somewhere OH GOD SOMETHING WILL GET ME" instinct to deal with, so they need more things to duck under/into as they go about their business.

I've seen these "snake hides" that look pretty cool, they're like a fake rock with a hole in the top made by I think TRex or somebody. They both seem to burrow to get away from it all or sit on the top plinths.

This is probably the best course of action. A couple ten-gallons shouldn't run you up too badly. If you're still keen on using that big free tank (and it is a hella nice tank), you could add to your reptile family something that DOES need the space. Bearded dragons are supposed to be like the puppy dogs of the reptile world, and while they don't get terribly large they need tons of space to zoom around. I can't remember their exact needs off the top of my head, or if you can cohabit them, but Google should give you all you could want in no time flat.

My Girlfriend and I have been looking online tonight and have found someone who is selling 15 gallon vivs with mats and lighting for real cheap so we'll be buying those and have them by next weekend, as before I just used this tank as it was a freebie, but am real glad for your advice.
Actually I do want to say thanks a ton mate for your friendly advice and help. We're both really grateful and it's really refreshing to us especially being newbs to snakes that it's come without any pretentions and condemnations... Thanks Dude... :worship:

 

[Mushroom Spore]

I've seen these "snake hides" that look pretty cool, they're like a fake rock with a hole in the top made by I think TRex or somebody. They both seem to burrow to get away from it all or sit on the top plinths.

That sounds kinda like what I bought for Rorschach, little rock caves. I think they were Exo-Terra or something, but anyway exact brand isn't important. Rockish stuff seems to work out pretty well, the one on the warm end will absorb some heat and get warm to the touch...sometimes Ror will just sit on top of his, he loves it. If it's kinda rough (but not actually sharp) in places, that can help with shedding, too. They rub all over things to try to get their skin off, so having a few rough objects in there is a good thing. His water bowl is made of the same stuff, too.

My Girlfriend and I have been looking online tonight and have found someone who is selling 15 gallon vivs with mats and lighting for real cheap so we'll be buying those and have them by next weekend, as before I just used this tank as it was a freebie, but am real glad for your advice.

Oooh, that's pretty good. A 15 won't be too terribly huge for a young corn, but it'll last you much longer than a 10 before you need to upgrade. You may only ever need to upgrade for the female, male snakes are usually smaller. ex: ball python males are usually 3-4 feet or so, but females can hit 5 or even 6.

Actually I do want to say thanks a ton mate for your friendly advice and help. We're both really grateful and it's really refreshing to us especially being newbs to snakes that it's come without any pretentions and condemnations... Thanks Dude... :worship:

Nah, it's nothing. I researched all sorts of things like mad before I finally settled on getting Rorschach, and all the people I talked to were totally awesome. And getting into Ts now, all the people that helped me before I got 'em and now that I have 'em...I figure I should repay the favor wherever I can, yanno?