How long does it take for a Sling to molt?

[Odontodactylus]

I'm very concerned about how my sling is doing rn.

I have not touched it, I have not had the room lights on, I left it be since I woke up at 1 PM today and noticed (at time of writing it is now 9 PM so 8 hours), and its flipped over like this still with no progress:



This is a C. versicolor not even the size of a penny, 2nd or 3rd instar if i had to guess. I've had it 2 months with no molt until now. I sprayed the enclosure with water last night, but it hasn't had any interest in eating at all for 3 weeks.

I know the obvious answer is going to be "its not in death curl the legs are spread out evenly so just wait" but I never heard of slings being this slow at it and its got me worried. Especially since it didn't even have a web mat, it has dense webbing at the top of the enclosure but decided to do this at the bottom. Anyone else have really slow molts like this and is it normal for aboreals to just not do it in the web? The only thing I may have disturbed is when I attempted a feed last night I put the dead cricket at the entrance to see if it'd scavenge it but before I could take it out today it never went back in the web when I scared it, but it was acting perfectly normal and fast. I'd had avic avics near adult hood molt smoothly, and the final growth molt of my brachy took nearly a whole day but showed signs of twitching here and there which I can't tell at this size.

 

[sparticus]

All of mine have always molted up in their web hammock. I don't think it's a good sign to see it laying on the floor like that. Kinda looks like maybe it fell? Their little paws sometimes don't stick very well when they're in premolt. I haven't experienced this issue personally, so I don't know if there's anything you can do. I would just wait and monitor, but I think it might already be deceased.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I'm very concerned about how my sling is doing rn.

I have not touched it, I have not had the room lights on, I left it be since I woke up at 1 PM today and noticed (at time of writing it is now 9 PM so 8 hours), and its flipped over like this still with no progress:

View attachment 449295

This is a C. versicolor not even the size of a penny, 2nd or 3rd instar if i had to guess. I've had it 2 months with no molt until now. I sprayed the enclosure with water last night, but it hasn't had any interest in eating at all for 3 weeks.

I know the obvious answer is going to be "its not in death curl the legs are spread out evenly so just wait" but I never heard of slings being this slow at it and its got me worried. Especially since it didn't even have a web mat, it has dense webbing at the top of the enclosure but decided to do this at the bottom. Anyone else have really slow molts like this and is it normal for aboreals to just not do it in the web? The only thing I may have disturbed is when I attempted a feed last night I put the dead cricket at the entrance to see if it'd scavenge it but before I could take it out today it never went back in the web when I scared it, but it was acting perfectly normal and fast. I'd had avic avics near adult hood molt smoothly, and the final growth molt of my brachy took nearly a whole day but showed signs of twitching here and there which I can't tell at this size.

Less than 5 hours of anything under 3”. Probably a few hours I don’t know check time lapses people record them I don’t got the equipment to do so yet . Unfortunately I haven’t had good luck with molts in the past , even to the point last year lost my oldest t.

 

[cold blood]

2 important things...

First off, a versi sling (any versi or avic type, really) will NEVER just flip over on the ground and molt...like never. They molt in web tubes or cacoons. Secondly, a sling will not take long to molt...an hour would be a very long time for a molting sling.

Your t likely fell and landed just like it is...you need to check on it to see if its even alive at this point.

 

[Odontodactylus]

2 important things...

First off, a versi sling (any versi or avic type, really) will NEVER just flip over on the ground and molt...like never. They molt in web tubes or cacoons. Secondly, a sling will not take long to molt...an hour would be a very long time for a molting sling.

Your t likely fell and landed just like it is...you need to check on it to see if its even alive at this point.

I took this as an emergency call and decided to check on it.

I tried avoiding touching it as much as possible (but i did bump a hindleg), the T twitched every so slightly showing signs of life.

I think its actually on a web it seems, as if its just upside on a web that low, it still is lethargic in a way it seems to be molting, but that little 'twitch' tells me it aint over yet.

Should I spray with water just incase it dehydrates or needs moisture?

 

[SpookySpooder]

Wow, glad to hear it isn't dead, but I wonder what's wrong with it.

It hasn't eaten in 3 weeks? How do you know this? Have you left live feeders in with it, have you tried prekilled near it's web?

Before you spray water, how wet is it already? Is the sling capable of movement? Would it be better if you placed the sling's fangs over a droplet?

How tall is the enclosure? May I see a photo of it?

 

[Odontodactylus]

It hasn't eaten in 3 weeks? How do you know this?

I distinctively remember the last meal it had, pinheads are hard to come by around here it's basically "i have to ask staff to get me the tiniest cricket they can find", if they're small enough I try live tong feeding the T, which worked once, if they're large enough (about the size of the T itself) I pre-kill them or use their legs, and place them in the web to scavenge. I tried fruit flies but they seemed too small for any interest. It ate a full cricket by tongs few days after I got it, a leg of a large cricket another few days later, and then ate a pinhead from the tongs about 3 weeks ago, since then every feeding was basically 'fail and try again in a few days', I had 1 pinhead running around left in there that eventually expired on its own while the T never came down for it, and nowadays I try to repeat what worked, tongs and give up or corpse/piece placed in web to scavenge.

How tall is the enclosure? May I see a photo of it?

Deli cup, small size. I punctured holes around the sizes for ventilation, I actually ordered spider wood for anchor points but it didn't arrive so I used wood dowels instead to kinda create some, it surprisingly never used them and just webbed the whole corner side quite nicely. All the water droplets you see are on the outside of the enclosure to try and get some of the droplets in the holes, the water dish (literally just the vial it came in) has a mesh below the water line so the T can't fall in or chew it but can still access water, I've seen it drink a couple times (its tilted now cause of me going in there.). For size reference, it's laying on the bottom towards the right side. Its a bit big for its starting size but I figured it'd mostly just use the height so the surface area is pointless but tall enough, then after a few molts upgrade to the taller cup.

 

[cold blood]

It hasn't eaten in 3 weeks?

I didnt address this because its not relevant information....3 weeks fasting is normal for any t at any size and wouldnt be of any concern.

Would it be better if you placed the sling's fangs over a droplet?

Yeah, this would be the way to offer it water.

I distinctively remember the last meal it had, pinheads are hard to come by around here it's basically "i have to ask staff to get me the tiniest cricket they can find", if they're small enough I try live tong feeding the T, which worked once, if they're large enough (about the size of the T itself) I pre-kill them or use their legs, and place them in the web to scavenge. I tried fruit flies but they seemed too small for any interest. It ate a full cricket by tongs few days after I got it, a leg of a large cricket another few days later, and then ate a pinhead from the tongs about 3 weeks ago, since then every feeding was basically 'fail and try again in a few days', I had 1 pinhead running around left in there that eventually expired on its own while the T never came down for it, and nowadays I try to repeat what worked, tongs and give up or corpse/piece placed in web to scavenge.



Deli cup, small size. I punctured holes around the sizes for ventilation, I actually ordered spider wood for anchor points but it didn't arrive so I used wood dowels instead to kinda create some, it surprisingly never used them and just webbed the whole corner side quite nicely. All the water droplets you see are on the outside of the enclosure to try and get some of the droplets in the holes, the water dish (literally just the vial it came in) has a mesh below the water line so the T can't fall in or chew it but can still access water, I've seen it drink a couple times (its tilted now cause of me going in there.). For size reference, it's laying on the bottom towards the right side. Its a bit big for its starting size but I figured it'd mostly just use the height so the surface area is pointless but tall enough, then after a few molts upgrade to the taller cup.

View attachment 449303

looking at the enclosure, its almost certainly a fall. The wood you use should never be thin little sticks, you want something substantial enough for the t to safely climb on, hunt from, and stretch out on. I get that you were probably planning on a cool web tube mass, but the reality is that there is a significant fall risk when you offer such thin items for the t to climb on

 

[Odontodactylus]

I put it in ICU

I physically checked on it because its taking way too long, it was twitching when I sprayed with water, and when I gently picked it up and placed in my hand to see what was going on I found the head carapace did in fact release

I really hope i didn't make things worse by over panicing... but it is infact alive and in a molt. I decided to use this environment cause idk what to do a tthis point.. the substrate is messy, the web didn't have anywhere to lay it flat, and it was in my palm and i was afraid i was second by second killing it.

 

[ladyratri]

Not sure if this is relevant but... Are you certain of what those dowels are made of? As in, could they be treated wood, or cedar/related type of wood that can be toxic to invertebrates? And your substrate is free from any kind of fertilizer/compost/manure? Any of those could be introducing pesticides or other substances that could harm your T over time.

I use a slice from a flat piece of cork bark -- just cut a piece like 1.5" wide and short enough to fit in the bin on a diagonal.

 

[Odontodactylus]

Not sure if this is relevant but... Are you certain of what those dowels are made of? As in, could they be treated wood, or cedar/related type of wood that can be toxic to invertebrates? And your substrate is free from any kind of fertilizer/compost/manure? Any of those could be introducing pesticides or other substances that could harm your T over time.

I use a slice from a flat piece of cork bark -- just cut a piece like 1.5" wide and short enough to fit in the bin on a diagonal.

Not sure tbh, doesn't say its treated with anything but the brand is cindoco. I tried to be very careful in selecting my alternatives and read products for any sign of treatment, there was legitimately no corks or spider wood in the area, i tried 3 different stores that day and tried to think of an alternative to using what could've been sprayed on outside.

looking at the enclosure, its almost certainly a fall.

I can confirm it wasn't a fall at least, it did run down to the bottom last night in a failed feeding attempt, it basically stayed there until i woke up the next morning to it flipped for the molt. If it makes it I'll definitely redo the enclosure to avoid this scenario in the future but I don't think this scenario is what occured, it just got scared off and never climbed back up and chose to stay there.

 

[SpookySpooder]

Ah, sounded like it wasn't eating at all. But really it's more like you loaded it up so full it didn't need to eat any more.

As far as the molt. I got nothing for ya. This is the first I'm hearing of a versicolor sling (any sling actually) taking over 10 hours to molt.

I hope it goes well for your sling.

Btw why did you put it into an ICU? Can you explain your line of thinking and why that would better than just placing it back into the enclosure?

I'm not saying to move it again I'm just wondering if I missed something.

 

[Odontodactylus]

Btw why did you put it into an ICU? Can you explain your line of thinking and why that would better than just placing it back into the enclosure?

I decided to check on it physically, gently picked it up into my hand to inspect it closer cause like you said, its very abnormal for this molt to drag on like this and the twitch made me very curious if possibly it was just in a weird 'under a web that low' position, I saw the head plate of the carapace was infact released and looked like the abdomen was where it was barely still attached, and I didn't know how to place it back down in the enclosure, the webbing isn't flat its very purse-like so I didn't know if it would just get tangled or how to properly place it in the webbing, and the substrate after picking it up (I tried to basically lift from underneath) got messed up and if ti did have a web i couldn't see laying at the bottom beneath it, it's destroyed and i didn't know if bare substrate was safe.

I decided easiest was to get it off my hand and in something that i know no further harm could be done in was just to damp a paper tower, gentle lay it on the paper towel, and lower it in.

This photo was taken before i put it in ICU, if you look very close you can kinda see the head piece still attached to the abdomen

 

[ladyratri]

I put it in ICU

The enclosure you posted a photo of appears to have literally NO air holes? It will suffocate.

but it is infact alive and in a molt

This does not bode well, because of the 8 hour delay as much as anything else... Seems unfortunately like it may have gotten stuck early in the molting process. It may not have made it even without being disturbed.

If it makes it I'll definitely redo the enclosure to avoid this scenario in the future

If you can't get cork bark, consider a bigger leaf from a fake plant. The plastic ones are stiff enough if you put some extra dirt to hold it up:

 

[Odontodactylus]

The enclosure you posted a photo of appears to have literally NO air holes? It will suffocate.

There are indeed holes all around it, I put a lot of emphasis on ventilation and poked 2 rows of holes about an inch part around it. I didn't put any at the top to help humidity even though I mostly just have the water dish and very ocassional (every few days or so) spray one side, on the outside of the counter, with water for some to get in the holes.

This does not bode well, because of the 8 hour delay as much as anything else... Seems unfortunately like it may have gotten stuck early in the molting process. It may not have made it even without being disturbed.

It's really discouraging :/ this happened to me twice. I had a P. irminia this size that died in a molt, it got stuck at the abdomen. It was a good eater, then suddenly molted, actually did it fast and died, I woke up finding it exactly as it was when I waited about 8 hours to confirm it was dead, I found it with its abdomen stuck and the T in a curl with the head and legs part already molted out. I felt so terrible cause I thought maybe I did something wrong or bothered it too early.. but seeing how this one is really struggling and still hanging onto life I kinda have closure that one was 100% gone before I touched it.

I'm cursed with slings ig, they're not my first Ts but I haven't had Ts for about 2 years prior (really bad urticating hairs experience had to give away my brachy) so this was my way of getting back in with NW arboreals. I'm still trying to keep a positive mindset about this one, it aint dead yet the head piece is detached but the legs and abdomen aren't through yet, but it would make 2 in a row having struggles like that idk if its my husbandry or god awful luck.

 

[SpookySpooder]

I was gonna mention the amount of ventilation you had as well, but wasn't sure just how many holes were actually poked. From the photos it looks inadequate.

Two in a row... is one from a pattern.

I wonder if hydration and humidity had a role to play in these molts you're having.

If you keep an journal or notes, post how you keep them. A more experienced keeper can glean through your notes and point out any mistakes or suggest improvements.

 

[ladyratri]

I didn't put any at the top to help humidity even though I mostly just have the water dish and very ocassional (every few days or so) spray one side, on the outside of the counter, with water for some to get in the holes.

This sounds like you are talking about the regular enclosure. I meant the ICU photo.

I put plenty of top ventilation in the enclosures for my vehicle and my Avic (A. purpurea, kept basically the same as a versicolor).

The best way to give them drinking water is to drip some onto the webbing and/or side of the container. They'll often drink from there even when they don't go to the water dish.

idk if its my husbandry or god awful luck.

Bad luck can definitely be part of it, but after more than one case of basically the same issue, imho you need to inspect your husbandry. The good news is, the gold on this board are the best for spotting issues and making suggestions for improvement. Sometimes we may sound harsh, but it's really ite of concern for the animals. Please read past any tough wording and really take to heart all the advice given above.

 

[Odontodactylus]

This sounds like you are talking about the regular enclosure. I meant the ICU photo.

I put plenty of top ventilation in the enclosures for my vehicle and my Avic (A. purpurea, kept basically the same as a versicolor).

The best way to give them drinking water is to drip some onto the webbing and/or side of the container. They'll often drink from there even when they don't go to the water dish.


Bad luck can definitely be part of it, but after more than one case of basically the same issue, imho you need to inspect your husbandry. The good news is, the gold on this board are the best for spotting issues and making suggestions for improvement. Sometimes we may sound harsh, but it's really ite of concern for the animals. Please read past any tough wording and really take to heart all the advice given above.

Yeah I'm absolutely giving 200% if this doesn't work out and I attempt a third, I do saltwater so I'm used to staying on top of things but this feels like a huge embarrassment on my part, stuff happens but not twice in a row, I never really thought of Ts as complicated but I must be blind to something. A journal for husbandry coaching would do me wonders, my current pattern is basically just making sure the water dish is filled, attempt to feed every 3 days or so via tongs, if food is too big I kill it or rip off a leg and place in web for it to scavenge (this is what scared it to the bottom of the enclosure last night before this, I left the food at the entrance and ig it never went back in since it was either scared or blocked off). Since its so small I do have difficulty finding suitable food, crickets are either too big, dubias around me are too big I searched yesterday for them small enough, i usually just pick out the tiniest crickets i can find and buy in 3s since they die so fast before the next feeding.

Room temp is 76.4 and humidity is 45, this is just the room itself I have an aquarium in it so it maintains this temp and humidity all day long. I spray every few days, sometimes once a week tbh I haven't really kept track, the outside of the enclosure to let the area around it be humid and go in rather than soak the inside itself. I occasionally watched the T drink from the air holes and from the dish itself. I used the vial it came in, filled it with water, and used a mesh designed for aquariums to stuff in the vial (for purpose of the T not falling it, but also low enough it won't try to chew or crawl on it, I always replace mesh/wire with something like pexiglass on enclosures that use it.) Reason I used the vial is I figured it'd be taller for an arboreal mostly being at that top, and it'd be easier to keep up with being filled compared to a bottle cap that might overflow or tip. Its always away from windows and draft.

You're correct there's no holes in the ICU, I'm kinda just expecting the result to be decided by the end of the night or latest middle of the day tomorrow, and knowing what it shipped in I thought it would be sufficient until then. RN its exactly as I left it, on its back with no visual signs, its still not 'curled up' so I assume the moment the legs curl in that's the sign its over, I worry if it can even get out of the molt at this point. It still hasn't pulled the legs out, so idk maybe if i witness it get at least as far as to the abdomen where i think it's stuck there's a window to save it.

 

[SpookySpooder]

I'm from the freshwater planted side myself. I keep a journal, and that allows me to make notes of things I observe in my animals and to keep track of the husbandry conditions or changes I make over time in case something occurs down the line. I (or someone be else) can go back and trace it to the exact moment where I made the mistake.

For example, a note in my journal could read "today feeding went normally but due to slowing plant growth I upped the nutrient ratio by 10% per gallon." A month later, my tank is blooming with algae. I go online and ask for help, uploading my notes to someone with more experience with algae. They go through my notes and tell me to dial down my nutrient cycle and to do some water changes to reset and I'll see that my increase of nutrients was the mistake that caused the bloom.

Even though I've been in the hobby for over 2 decades, I still make mistakes, I still learn stuff all the time. Having all my information organized has been a blessing when asking more experienced or knowledgeable hobbyists for help.

I am not lecturing you, just saying.

Sometimes you just get unlucky though. Lightning has struck the same person multiple times before.

Do you think maybe the sling was getting ready to molt when you scared it out of the web?

The shock from the fall could have disrupted the molting process.

I'm just throwing ideas out there. Nothing concrete based in evidence.

 

[Odontodactylus]

Do you think maybe the sling was getting ready to molt when you scared it out of the web?

a) Either this as it ran out of its comfort zone to start

b) intervening, maybe it was just a ridiculously long molt and touching it at all even after waiting so long was the wrong move sealing the fate, idk. very long fast maybe very long molt

c) malnourishment, maybe it didn't have the energy for the molt, it fasted 3 weeks which ik for most inverts is typical, even for Ts it doesn't sound like a big deal, but IMO 3 seems excessive for anything. If it was 1 week, ok expected, 2 weeks, bit nerve racking but understandable they're low motablism.. 3 I feel like there must've been a window somewhere in that 3rd week to get a good meal in before the fasting began, either I failed in my approach, timing, or something but feels like I'll never know if it was truly fed enough or just unwilling to eat. Like I have a giant calappa flammea in my saltwater tank, it fasted 1 week before molting then fasted another week without moving an inch after the molt, and now its eating like a monster. My Odontodactylus Scyllarus next to me has been hunting snails and always has a fish available to eat, it never attacked the fish in the 7 months I had them both together and I always know there's sources of food if there ever was a period it was going to fast or if I got lazy, it will find its own inbetween my feedings. Can't really do that here so my timing has to be right with the T.