hibernation for spanish fellows

[Murziukas]

Hi folks,

I would like to consult you about spanish scorpions that I got from one nice scorpion lover. I have 3 Buthus ibericus, one is 4th, one 3rd and last one still 2nd instar from spain. In the beggining I though: I'll wait till both smaller ones will moult, and one did, other is still little fat bastard but shoul moult soon. At least I hope so. Should I put them for winter period in cooler place? My second scorpion was buthus occitanus that grew fast, ate well but died without any logical explanation. I like those a lot so I would like to see them grow, but I'm not sure how to behave. Temperature I keep them in is like 23 - 25'C, room temperature is like ~ 21'C. Advice me please.

Best wishes

 

[Nikos]

go for it no matter if they eat well and stuff.
If you lower the temps they'll enter hibernation without any problems.

Your refrigirator is the best place

I'm not sure however if there is any risk for the very fat ones...

 

[Murziukas]

My fridge is aggressive one (like +2'C) so I guess better place would be to put them near window as outside we have (now) something like from -5'C to - 15'C (sometimes). I'll check temperature near it when I'll get balck from work. Eventhrough somehow I don't think it will be ok if I'll leave them there without some buffer (23'C to 13'C) in one step.
They don't have much soil with them so how should I prepare their minitanks for winter? Do thay stay underground? How many cm's of sand/peat mixture should I give them? Do I need to mist tanks after cooling down? What to do with fat ones: one looks like 5 minutes till 5th instar, other - almost 3rd instar.
Shoul I try to feed one that recently moulted once more o just start cooling? A lot of question I guess, but I'd like to make them comfortable for winter. The last one (for now ): how long they should be sleeping?

 

[Nikos]

I don't have any experience with B.occitanus but I think its pretty much the same as with m.gibbosus.

I've found m.gibbosus in the wild under stones when temps were 0 C and in the same places it is know for temps to sink down to even -7C.

If b.occitanus is constructing burrows in the wild, then you should give them this oppurtunity and I'd suggest to give them a LOT soil to dig.

I'd feed the freshly molted individual prior hibernation.

Temps are rising again in March so you should gradualy increase the temps then.

 

[Murziukas]

Ok, I guess it will be quit fancinating experience as well. By the way, it's not about occitanus, it's about ibericus, but I guess there is no big difference in this case Thanks for your answers

 

[Murziukas]

Room temperature is 20'C, near window 15'C
What should I do with "fat" ones? Two of them look like they could moult any minute. And how long procces should last (how long they should stay in room temperature before putting them in 15'C temperature)?

 

[Ythier]

Important things for hibernation process (quiescence is a best term for scorpions : only dependant from external conditions, not from hormonal conditions) are :
-to aerate very well the tanks during hibernation
-to keep low the humidity level
-and to decrease/increase very progressively the temperature. As said Nikos you can put it in bottom of your freeze (you should increase a little bit the T° in order to have 5° minimum in this part).
It is important for desertic / semi-desertic spp' growth/reproduction to have a quiescence period (even little, 1-2 months is enough). Last winter I got a M.gibbosus female which gave birth in november, I fed it well then I put in in the freeze 2 months. In february she gave birth again..
I just come back from Valencia, Spain, temperature is 10-15°...if you want to make "hibernate" your scorpions, hurry up !

 

[Murziukas]

Hi Eric,

thanks for reply. So briefly: lowest point - 5°C, to get there smoothly like 23, 20, 15, 10 and finaly 5°C. Keep it dry (how dry should I mist once or twice a month?), well ventilated, quiet and calm for 2 months (what would be warming up here in Lithuania too). I already prepared "minitanks", but the soil is a bit too wet still so I think I have two more days to wait.

 

[Ythier]

lowest point - 5°C

Hi,
Don't know if it's a good temperature, it is the one I use and I didn't loose many scorpions using this T°.
10° could be better but it is not feasible in the common freeze. Can be done in the cellar (about 10°), but humidity is too high, I tried and lost many scorpions.

Keep it dry (how dry should I mist once or twice a month?)

I usually put it on dry sand during all the resting phase (except for some Euscorpius/Belisarius which I put on quite humid soil). Again, don't know if it's the good way but it seems to be ok with all the scorpions I tried (various EU, US and North african spp).

quiet and calm

I usually put all my minitanks in a ventilated opaque box (eg. shoes box) in order to avoid light of the freeze.
Cheers,
Eric

 

[Murziukas]

I checked anual averages in Spain and 5°C seems to be just fine for two months. As for soil I mixed washed sea sand, quartz sand, peat and gypsum, packed and left it to dy out. I thonk I'll move them today and give them few days to dig out their resting places after what I'll start to decrease temperature. My fridge is too aggressive so they will stay in between two windows. I guess I'll share some photos later.

Take care.

 

[Michael]

Hi Eric,

You give your North African species also a quiescence process?

 

[subzero.xml]

we have no winter in our place, but for me he should sleep for a while =)

 

[Murziukas]

Here we go

I preppared soild from quartz sand, sea sand, peat and gypsum. When dry it gets pretty strong an reliable for burrowers.

The first one got pretty easy. A bit shy still but I think will manage to get a burrow in a night.

Now the second fellow showed some attitude. As you can see - he holds small plastic spoon. So he was moved while holding it as I tried to pick him with spoon and he grabed it. It took something like 2 minutes untill he let it go. Buthus Ibericus named Heraklis aka Hercules.

Third one went easily

And here we go I'll start to decrease temperature from day after tomorow as I think they could use some time to get used to new place. Should I feed them before "log out"?

 

[Ythier]

Hi Eric,
You give your North African species also a quiescence process?

Yes, usually during 1-2 months max., I think it is better for their life span (in Morocco, some spp are currently under snow )
I tried also with some Middle Eastern spp like some maurus, Nebo, etc... but there were some deads during the resting period.