Heterometrus spp. burrowing deep

[AzInoxia]

I've had an AFS for about 3 months, I'm unsure of the exact species of Heterometrus he is. When I first got him he was out in the open pretty regularly, but one day he just decided to burrow under his hide. He went down on an angle. Hit the bottom, then a wall, dug to the corner turned and went halfway down to the next corner. Then he stayed there. He was too deep to even offer food, and I didn't want to let crickets loose if he's gonna molt.

I figured he was in premolt so I left him be. Flash to about a month later, my dogs knock down his aquarium and it breaks. He looks to be fine, but I keep him in a critter keeper with wet paper towels and a hide to observe for a couple days to make sure he's not injured. (No molt yet.)

I put together a new enclosure and put him in. Instantly he's in the hide and burrowing by nightfall. I gave him less substrate this time but still enough to dig because it's what he wants to do, and ends up shallow enough I know I can coax him to the entrance with food. I still figure he's in premolt. He stays in there for another couple weeks still rejecting food. Untill a couple days ago when I was able to coax him to the entrance to his burrow and he takes 2 crickets, and still no molt.

Now none of this is really alarming to me. He's just fine down in his burrow and I know that, but everywhere I look I hear that they don't tend to dig that often, so I worry I'm doing something wrong. Temps were about 74°F in my climate controlled cabinet, and he's been out of there because I thought he might've been too warm hence the digging.. Average temps are about 68°F in the room. I wake up late at night all the time and regularly check up on my inverts and I've never caught him out. I keep a full water bowl and overflow it about once a week, misting the top of the substrate when I do. The cheap hygrometer I had in his first enclosure usually read around 70-80% but I don't know how much I trust it.

The room he's in is pretty quiet for the most part, and he's on a solid foundation so there shouldn't be much in the way of vibration. Is this just winter time behavior? Or do I just have the wrong idea about Heterometrus SPP.? Is there a particular species that burrows more than others? I'm more versed in tarantula care so I'm still learning, but I feel like I've hit most of the obvious care points. So I believe in my heart he's fine, and it may just be an individual quirk. Thoughts and criticisms would be wonderful.

 

[Dry Desert]

I've had an AFS for about 3 months, I'm unsure of the exact species of Heterometrus he is. When I first got him he was out in the open pretty regularly, but one day he just decided to burrow under his hide. He went down on an angle. Hit the bottom, then a wall, dug to the corner turned and went halfway down to the next corner. Then he stayed there. He was too deep to even offer food, and I didn't want to let crickets loose if he's gonna molt.

I figured he was in premolt so I left him be. Flash to about a month later, my dogs knock down his aquarium and it breaks. He looks to be fine, but I keep him in a critter keeper with wet paper towels and a hide to observe for a couple days to make sure he's not injured. (No molt yet.)

I put together a new enclosure and put him in. Instantly he's in the hide and burrowing by nightfall. I gave him less substrate this time but still enough to dig because it's what he wants to do, and ends up shallow enough I know I can coax him to the entrance with food. I still figure he's in premolt. He stays in there for another couple weeks still rejecting food. Untill a couple days ago when I was able to coax him to the entrance to his burrow and he takes 2 crickets, and still no molt.

Now none of this is really alarming to me. He's just fine down in his burrow and I know that, but everywhere I look I hear that they don't tend to dig that often, so I worry I'm doing something wrong. Temps were about 74°F in my climate controlled cabinet, and he's been out of there because I thought he might've been too warm hence the digging.. Average temps are about 68°F in the room. I wake up late at night all the time and regularly check up on my inverts and I've never caught him out. I keep a full water bowl and overflow it about once a week, misting the top of the substrate when I do. The cheap hygrometer I had in his first enclosure usually read around 70-80% but I don't know how much I trust it.

The room he's in is pretty quiet for the most part, and he's on a solid foundation so there shouldn't be much in the way of vibration. Is this just winter time behavior? Or do I just have the wrong idea about Heterometrus SPP.? Is there a particular species that burrows more than others? I'm more versed in tarantula care so I'm still learning, but I feel like I've hit most of the obvious care points. So I believe in my heart he's fine, and it may just be an individual quirk. Thoughts and criticisms would be wonderful.

Any Asian/African species needs temperature in the range of 75-90F.

Yours is burrowing deep trying to find warmth.

Asian Forest don't normally burrow deep as they are fairly surface active and are happy in shallow burrows/ scrapes.

Yet another " Room temperature will be fine"

 

[MrPole]

Yours is burrowing deep trying to find warmth.

I don't know anything about them so this is a legit question and not a 'questioning' question, but wouldn't they burrow to escape the heat? It seems counterintuitive to burrow to find warmth.

 

[Matt1987]

Um they usually

Any Asian/African species needs temperature in the range of 75-90F.

Yours is burrowing deep trying to find warmth.

Asian Forest don't normally burrow deep as they are fairly surface active and are happy in shallow burrows/ scrapes.

Yet another " Room temperature will be fine"

they burrow deep to escape the warmth not to find it.

I wouldn’t worry if he/she is burrowing. This is perfectly normal behaviour for many species and heterometrus do tend to burrow a lot. My Javanimetrus Cyaneus however tends to use her burrow throughout much of the day then is up and about through the evening.
Have you tried feeding late in the evening? Perhaps put a feeder into the terrarium. That might coax the scorpion out. A temperature of 75° - 90°F is perfect so I doubt he/she is too cold. Even if the temperature was cooler the scorpion would be absolutely fine as they are extremely hardy. My terrarium is at 30°C at the hot end and 24°C at the cool end. During the evening I’ve set the the thermostat to lower the hotter part of her terrarium to 26°

 

[Joey Spijkers]

Burrowing is normal, but I agree a temperature is required. They usually sit at the entrance of the burrow when hungry.

 

[Dry Desert]

Um they usually


they burrow deep to escape the warmth not to find it.

I wouldn’t worry if he/she is burrowing. This is perfectly normal behaviour for many species and heterometrus do tend to burrow a lot. My Javanimetrus Cyaneus however tends to use her burrow throughout much of the day then is up and about through the evening.
Have you tried feeding late in the evening? Perhaps put a feeder into the terrarium. That might coax the scorpion out. A temperature of 75° - 90°F is perfect so I doubt he/she is too cold. Even if the temperature was cooler the scorpion would be absolutely fine as they are extremely hardy. My terrarium is at 30°C at the hot end and 24°C at the cool end. During the evening I’ve set the the thermostat to lower the hotter part of her terrarium to 26°

Oh they burrow to escape the heat do they ??

They are not in the middle of the desert.

With the temperatures mentioned no scorpion is going to stay on the cold surface.

They will burrow deep where the temperature is slightly warmer and keep burrowing hoping to find a temperature warm enough to settle.

WITH SO MANY EXPERTS IN ALL FIELDS ON THIS FORUM I FOR ONE SHAN'T BE BOTHERED ANYMORE.

KEEP EVERYTHING AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
DON'T WORRY ABOUT CORRECT HUMIDITY OR VENTILATION AND WHEN XX DIES

CRY ON SOMEONE ELSE.

 

[AzInoxia]

Any Asian/African species needs temperature in the range of 75-90F.

Yours is burrowing deep trying to find warmth.

Asian Forest don't normally burrow deep as they are fairly surface active and are happy in shallow burrows/ scrapes.

Yet another " Room temperature will be fine"

Interesting. I'm not doubting you, but why would a scorpion burrow to find heat? I mean, I don't know what else they'd do and the temp is more stable underground. Would it basically be like brumation where they're trying to escape the harsh weather and wind?

It's not like we can ask or anything, it's just not something I'd really considered, which is a bad thing on my part. I have an extra heat mat and need a more flexible thermostat for the cabinet anyway, so I'll put him back in the cabinet for now and set him up in the warmer room with a heat mat on the side. Thanks for your input.

 

[AzInoxia]

Oh they burrow to escape the heat do they ??

They are not in the middle of the desert.

With the temperatures mentioned no scorpion is going to stay on the cold surface.

Just saw this. That makes sense.

 

[The Snark]

Oh they burrow to escape the heat do they ??

They are not in the middle of the desert.

For the past 3 months and up until July we receive less than 1 inch of rain and median temperatures will be 26-32C at night and up to 40C during the day. The entirety of N Thailand, Laos much of Burma and Cambodia is parched desert. No scorps will be found until the end of July into August since there is no food. The bugs come with the rainy season. Want a Silenus right now, grab a shovel and get digging.

 

[Matt1987]

Any Asian/African species needs temperature in the range of 75-90F.

Yours is burrowing deep trying to find warmth.

Asian Forest don't normally burrow deep as they are fairly surface active and are happy in shallow burrows/ scrapes.

Yet another " Room temperature will be fine"
[/

Just saw this. That makes sense.

Yet you think that they will find heat by burrowing below the surface?? …where temperatures will be cooler. I don’t think you seem to know what you are talking about?

no scorpion will stay on the surface at those temperatures? It’s the temperature that an AFS requires. A defensive and rather clueless response.

 

[Matt1987]

I've had an AFS for about 3 months, I'm unsure of the exact species of Heterometrus he is. When I first got him he was out in the open pretty regularly, but one day he just decided to burrow under his hide. He went down on an angle. Hit the bottom, then a wall, dug to the corner turned and went halfway down to the next corner. Then he stayed there. He was too deep to even offer food, and I didn't want to let crickets loose if he's gonna molt.

I figured he was in premolt so I left him be. Flash to about a month later, my dogs knock down his aquarium and it breaks. He looks to be fine, but I keep him in a critter keeper with wet paper towels and a hide to observe for a couple days to make sure he's not injured. (No molt yet.)

I put together a new enclosure and put him in. Instantly he's in the hide and burrowing by nightfall. I gave him less substrate this time but still enough to dig because it's what he wants to do, and ends up shallow enough I know I can coax him to the entrance with food. I still figure he's in premolt. He stays in there for another couple weeks still rejecting food. Untill a couple days ago when I was able to coax him to the entrance to his burrow and he takes 2 crickets, and still no molt.

Now none of this is really alarming to me. He's just fine down in his burrow and I know that, but everywhere I look I hear that they don't tend to dig that often, so I worry I'm doing something wrong. Temps were about 74°F in my climate controlled cabinet, and he's been out of there because I thought he might've been too warm hence the digging.. Average temps are about 68°F in the room. I wake up late at night all the time and regularly check up on my inverts and I've never caught him out. I keep a full water bowl and overflow it about once a week, misting the top of the substrate when I do. The cheap hygrometer I had in his first enclosure usually read around 70-80% but I don't know how much I trust it.

The room he's in is pretty quiet for the most part, and he's on a solid foundation so there shouldn't be much in the way of vibration. Is this just winter time behavior? Or do I just have the wrong idea about Heterometrus SPP.? Is there a particular species that burrows more than others? I'm more versed in tarantula care so I'm still learning, but I feel like I've hit most of the obvious care points. So I believe in my heart he's fine, and it may just be an individual quirk. Thoughts and criticisms would be wonderful.

It seems there is a lot of know it alls on here who become quite defensive. At 74°F an AFS will do just fine. They are hardy. Most of the care information for AFS suggest temperatures of 24-28°c.

also see many posts where owners are asking for identification or the species of scorpion they own which is pretty concerning. Why buy a scorpion if you don’t even know what species it is?

seems on here AFS are quickly identified as being H.Silenus. I’d like to know how people come to this conclusion because

Oh they burrow to escape the heat do they ??

They are not in the middle of the desert.

With the temperatures mentioned no scorpion is going to stay on the cold surface.

They will burrow deep where the temperature is slightly warmer and keep burrowing hoping to find a temperature warm enough to settle.

WITH SO MANY EXPERTS IN ALL FIELDS ON THIS FORUM I FOR ONE SHAN'T BE BOTHERED ANYMORE.

KEEP EVERYTHING AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
DON'T WORRY ABOUT CORRECT HUMIDITY OR VENTILATION AND WHEN XX DIES

CRY ON SOMEONE ELSE.

well clearly an expert you aren’t. I have an MSc in entomology and my specialism is scorpions.if you don’t like the information you’re given then it’s perhaps best you do leave

 

[AzInoxia]

also see many posts where owners are asking for identification or the species of scorpion they own which is pretty concerning. Why buy a scorpion if you don’t even know what species it is?

I know it's a Heterometrus spp. I'd like to know the particulars but seeing the level of hostility and elitism on this board I think I'm just gonna jet rather than try to find out on here.

I bought him because I like invertebrates. I was in a herp shop and got a great deal. I've cared for tarantulas in the past, and just got back into the hobby. I've always liked scorpions but was never in a position to keep multiple inverts until now. I try to do my due diligence hence asking questions on a board when something doesn't seem right to me, but it just feels like everyone in this thread would rather attack everyone else involved. I haven't even said anything and there's even animosity coming my way.

 

[Dry Desert]

It seems there is a lot of know it alls on here who become quite defensive. At 74°F an AFS will do just fine. They are hardy. Most of the care information for AFS suggest temperatures of 24-28°c.

also see many posts where owners are asking for identification or the species of scorpion they own which is pretty concerning. Why buy a scorpion if you don’t even know what species it is?

seems on here AFS are quickly identified as being H.Silenus. I’d like to know how people come to this conclusion because



well clearly an expert you aren’t. I have an MSc in entomology and my specialism is scorpions.if you don’t like the information you’re given then it’s perhaps best you do leave

Just a tiny piece of info.

In 1979 I was in the deserts of the Middle East with my torch collecting and observing what I had caught.

Since 1979 I've kept most species.

I don't need LETTERS after my name just a lifetime of experience.

Mind you I don't suppose I could compete, knowledge wise, with someone with letters and has joined the forum on Sunday.

 

[Matt1987]

No need to le

I know it's a Heterometrus spp. I'd like to know the particulars but seeing the level of hostility and elitism on this board I think I'm just gonna jet rather than try to find out on here.

I bought him because I like invertebrates. I was in a herp shop and got a great deal. I've cared for tarantulas in the past, and just got back into the hobby. I've always liked scorpions but was never in a position to keep multiple inverts until now. I try to do my due diligence hence asking questions on a board when something doesn't seem right to me, but it just feels like everyone in this thread would rather attack everyone else involved. I haven't even said anything and there's even animosity coming my way.

No need to leave. And yes there is a lot of hostility and defensive people on here and it’s really quite infuriating. Sorry if you thought I was being defensive to you. I was actually responding to some other aggy defensive fool who was just rude to you

 

[Matt1987]

Just a tiny piece of info.

In 1979 I was in the deserts of the Middle East with my torch collecting and observing what I had caught.

Since 1979 I've kept most species.

I don't need LETTERS after my name just a lifetime of experience.

Mind you I don't suppose I could compete, knowledge wise, with someone with letters and has joined the forum on Sunday.

Yeah but you do need some lessons in manners. You seem just ever so slightly the defensive know it all a hole.

just a TINY bit of info. The information you give is bollocks. Scorpions burrow away to escape the heat not to find it. Something that even people who do not claim to be scorpion experts should know. Perhaps don’t give people who are asking for advice such crappy information with such a defensive and rude response when the information you are giving is actually garbage.

 

[Joey Spijkers]

I'd like to know the particulars but seeing the level of hostility and elitism on this board I think I'm just gonna jet rather than try to find out on here.

Honestly, an understandable response after the responses you've received, but it would be unfortunate, as there is a lot of information and knowledge on the forum, even if some people convey it in an unhelpful way. Most people are genuinely here to help.
Try and read through the post I wrote (link in my signature, may only be visible on desktop version) and use the search function for previous posts (similar topics pop up somewhat regularly, which may be why some people are impatient and hostile towards you).
If you have any questions without the risk of being attacked, feel free to message me directly.

 

[adam james]

also see many posts where owners are asking for identification or the species of scorpion they own which is pretty concerning. Why buy a scorpion if you don’t even know what species it is?

I think the main reason for this, is because most places (well, around my location anyway) label everything as AFS only, or H. spinifer. So, many of these people are likely trying to find out or confirm what they have, for breeding purposes.
In my case, i knew exactly what features I wanted in a scorpion (H. spinifer), but when my scorpion arrived, it did not have some of the features i expected (white/amber telson mainly) so I got curious and did some research on why. I would come to discover that it is very likely due to it being misidentified, and that I likely had an H. silenus instead.

I know it's a Heterometrus spp. I'd like to know the particulars but seeing the level of hostility and elitism on this board I think I'm just gonna jet rather than try to find out on here.

I bought him because I like invertebrates. I was in a herp shop and got a great deal. I've cared for tarantulas in the past, and just got back into the hobby. I've always liked scorpions but was never in a position to keep multiple inverts until now. I try to do my due diligence hence asking questions on a board when something doesn't seem right to me, but it just feels like everyone in this thread would rather attack everyone else involved. I haven't even said anything and there's even animosity coming my way.

I mostly lurked for a very long time before i ever posted anything on this forum. Like you I am fairly new here.

There is a substantial amount of good information on this site. Don't let a few arguments scare you off!

 

[Joey Spijkers]

also see many posts where owners are asking for identification or the species of scorpion they own which is pretty concerning. Why buy a scorpion if you don’t even know what species it is?

I agree with @adam james on this one. Most Heterometrus are mislabled and it's hard for beginners to see the differences. Also the care for all Heterometrinae is pretty much the same, so it doesn't affect the quality of life for the scorp.
Earlier this week you were commenting on the amount of conflicting information that makes it difficult to properly ID your scorpions, and you seemed to be having some trouble with it yourself too, so I'm a bit confused about you writing this comment to be honest haha.

 

[Dry Desert]

I agree with @adam james on this one. Most Heterometrus are mislabled and it's hard for beginners to see the differences. Also the care for all Heterometrinae is pretty much the same, so it doesn't affect the quality of life for the scorp.
Earlier this week you were commenting on the amount of conflicting information that makes it difficult to properly ID your scorpions, and you seemed to be having some trouble with it yourself too, so I'm a bit confused about you writing this comment to be honest haha.

Joey,

It's not a case of hostility or rudeness, it's a case of constant frustration.

I , like yourself, have been on the forum for quite a while.

However, if you look back ,even 5 years, how many " old posters " are still around ??

The case of frustration is even more wide spread in the reptile world.

If you look on other forums, European, due to the high cost of energy many people are having to give up their pets.

Then we have the hundreds that " rescue " them without a clue on their husbandry or well being.

Then of course, rather than carry out even basic research,or looking at the many " stickies" on forums, will post multiple questions, because it's easier than doing research.

So once again, we stop what we are doing, find time to reply etc. and in many cases the poster never replies or returns with any updates.

I still maintain that any tropic species ,not just scorpions, when kept way to cold, even " around " 74 is the bottom end of the required temperature range. Will try and find a heat source,that will include Burrowing especially if the surface is cold.

PS.

Joey,
I admire your continual calm manner, I like others don't have your patience.

I now have to go onto another forum and try an convince another very old timer, not to leave, as he has had enough, and he's been on forums longer than me.

 

[The Snark]

Most of the care information for AFS suggest temperatures of 24-28°c.

Checking the Thai almanac, that is the median annual average day and night temperature of northern Thailand.
I'm a little leery of their figures as our local entomologist pointed out that almost 80% of the weather stations are at or below 1200 ft elevation. This skews the data somewhat as the range of H Silenus includes the mountain range of Loei and the western mountain range along the Burmese border all the way to the northern border which includes the Doi Inthanon area at up to 8400 feet which gets down to 0 C occasionally. The local mountain range near Chiang Mai includes Doi Suthep and Doi Pui at 5500 and 5700 respectively.
(Human deaths during the cold season in the hill and mountain areas during the cool season from hypothermia are quite common. People get used to the hot season and are unprepared for near freezing cold snaps.)

For the past and present 3 months, 15 miles outside Chiang Mai, our elevation average elevation is 1400 feet and the average temperatures have ranged from 16 C at night to 28 C during the day with virtually no rain. The is typical normal in the low lying areas. Maejo weather station data, 9 km northeast the city center and the Doi Pui weather station, 4700 ft elevation 16 km west of it. (Doi Pui's station is unreliable as the road is in terrible condition and the station doesn't appear to have been maintained in several years.