Heterometrus identification

[Edan bandoot]

I found a seller nearby selling h spinifer scorplings, is there anyway to tell if they are true spinifers?

 

[Lubed Tweezer]

Very very very difficult when they are scorplings.
If the seller is helpful and honest he/she could reveal the source, showing that mommy is indeed a true spinifer.
Otherwise take your chances, buy a few and raise them.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Very very very difficult when they are scorplings.
If the seller is helpful and honest he/she could reveal the source, showing that mommy is indeed a true spinifer.
Otherwise take your chances, buy a few and raise them.

I think the seller will probably be able to show me the parents, what should I look for on them

 

[Lubed Tweezer]

what should I look for on them

Its about a combination of two things, the telson should have a red color, and the price should be in the spinifer range.
There are stories going around that some adult spinifers also come with a dark brown telson, however I've never seen one in the hobby.
I strongly suspect that that story was made up by some dubious sellers that try to sell their H petersii as a 'true spinifer'.
As you might already know, H petersii is dirt cheap, H spinifer cost slightly more.
There's nothing wrong with owning a petersii, the price difference is caused by 'supply/demand' balance.
There is a good amount of people that want a spinifer but there aren't that many around,
since the last few years the market has been flooded by petersii and the demand for them isn't that high.
So that explains the difference in pricing.
So if the mommy of your future scorpion has a red telson, and a spinifer pricing then you can be 99.9% sure that it is a true spinifer.

The simplest method you can use to identify the most common Heterometrus scorpions in the hobby (although petersii is by far the most common):
-H. petersii and H. laoticus have dark telsons, rounder chela, and dorsal keels on the 5th metasomal segment that consist of relatively minute granules, while H. spinifer and H. longimanus usually have telsons that are lighter than their metasomas (usually red in adults, and various shades of yellow/orange as juveniles), narrower chela, and dorsal keels on the 5th metasomal segment that consist of relatively large, pointed granules.
-H. petersii and H. laoticus can be distinguished from each other in that H. petersii has granulation on the carapace and tergites while H. laoticus is totally devoid of any granulation, and H. petersii shows sexual dimorphism in that males have an enlarged tooth on the movable finger of the chela. Both species have a pectine tooth count of 15-19 in both sexes.
-H. spinifer and H. longimanus can be distinguished from each other in that H. spinifer has a pectine tooth count of 15-19 in both sexes, while H. longimanus has a pectine tooth count of 12-18 in both sexes. Sexual dimorphism in proportions of pedipalps in H. spinifer is not noticable, with chela slightly lobiform and a length to width ratio of 2.4-2.6 in both sexes. In H. longimanus on the other hand, the chela, patella, and femur of the pedipalps in males are narrower and more elongate than in females. Chela not lobiform in male, slightly lobiform in female. Length to width ratio of chela 3.3-4.4 in males, roughly 2.4 in females.
-Females of H. spinifer and H. longimanus are nearly indistinguishable from each other. Some small differences are that in H. spinifer the manus has smooth carinae forming irregular reticulations, while the manus of H. longimanus is sparsely tuberculate, and that while both species usually have the carapace with disc smooth and margins granulate, sometimes in H. longimanus the entire surface is granulate.

A small side note: There are other Heterometrus species that have a red telson but among all the species common in the hobby spinifer is the only one.
Any other species outside the hobby with a red telson apart from the 4 species mentioned above is considered 'rare' and are usually priced at least 10x higher.
Lets assume your mommy scorpion does have a red colored telson, if she doesn't then try to identify it by the guide above and adjust the price accordingly.
I hope this helps.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Its about a combination of two things, the telson should have a red color, and the price should be in the spinifer range.
There are stories going around that some adult spinifers also come with a dark brown telson, however I've never seen one in the hobby.
I strongly suspect that that story was made up by some dubious sellers that try to sell their H petersii as a 'true spinifer'.
As you might already know, H petersii is dirt cheap, H spinifer cost slightly more.
There's nothing wrong with owning a petersii, the price difference is caused by 'supply/demand' balance.
There is a good amount of people that want a spinifer but there aren't that many around,
since the last few years the market has been flooded by petersii and the demand for them isn't that high.
So that explains the difference in pricing.
So if the mommy of your future scorpion has a red telson, and a spinifer pricing then you can be 99.9% sure that it is a true spinifer.

The simplest method you can use to identify the most common Heterometrus scorpions in the hobby (although petersii is by far the most common):
-H. petersii and H. laoticus have dark telsons, rounder chela, and dorsal keels on the 5th metasomal segment that consist of relatively minute granules, while H. spinifer and H. longimanus usually have telsons that are lighter than their metasomas (usually red in adults, and various shades of yellow/orange as juveniles), narrower chela, and dorsal keels on the 5th metasomal segment that consist of relatively large, pointed granules.
-H. petersii and H. laoticus can be distinguished from each other in that H. petersii has granulation on the carapace and tergites while H. laoticus is totally devoid of any granulation, and H. petersii shows sexual dimorphism in that males have an enlarged tooth on the movable finger of the chela. Both species have a pectine tooth count of 15-19 in both sexes.
-H. spinifer and H. longimanus can be distinguished from each other in that H. spinifer has a pectine tooth count of 15-19 in both sexes, while H. longimanus has a pectine tooth count of 12-18 in both sexes. Sexual dimorphism in proportions of pedipalps in H. spinifer is not noticable, with chela slightly lobiform and a length to width ratio of 2.4-2.6 in both sexes. In H. longimanus on the other hand, the chela, patella, and femur of the pedipalps in males are narrower and more elongate than in females. Chela not lobiform in male, slightly lobiform in female. Length to width ratio of chela 3.3-4.4 in males, roughly 2.4 in females.
-Females of H. spinifer and H. longimanus are nearly indistinguishable from each other. Some small differences are that in H. spinifer the manus has smooth carinae forming irregular reticulations, while the manus of H. longimanus is sparsely tuberculate, and that while both species usually have the carapace with disc smooth and margins granulate, sometimes in H. longimanus the entire surface is granulate.

A small side note: There are other Heterometrus species that have a red telson but among all the species common in the hobby spinifer is the only one.
Any other species outside the hobby with a red telson apart from the 4 species mentioned above is considered 'rare' and are usually priced at least 10x higher.
Lets assume your mommy scorpion does have a red colored telson, if she doesn't then try to identify it by the guide above and adjust the price accordingly.
I hope this helps.

the temperature in my room is higher than the amount of pixels in the image the seller sent me of the mother, but it doesnt seem to have a red telson and shes blue is this still likely petersii?

 

[Lubed Tweezer]

Petersii have dark brown telson.
Red telson indicates spinifer.

 

[ArachnoDrew]

Any heterometrus species under 5th instar would be close to impossible to ID unless under a very good macro lense and knowing what to look for