Help with dog discipline

[thisgal]

I seriously feel like strangling my sister's dog right now. He is the absolute dumbest creature alive.

Okay, here's the deal: We have four dogs and three cats in our house right now. The smallest of the dogs (50 lb mutt) and the largest of the dogs (90 lb Weimaraner mix) are my sister's dogs, and we have them every now and then, so they are very familiar with the house, other animals, routine, etc. The current situation is so because she just had a baby, and she has yet another dog (purebred pit bull) still at her house.

My issue is the big, dumb, Weimer. His name is Oscar. He's five years old, but he acts like he's five MONTHS old. This dog cannot be effectively disciplined. My dad works all day an hour away. I work 6 hours a day not even a block away, so I am able to come let the dogs out once or twice while I'm gone. He gets plenty of exercise. We have a big yard with an invisible fence, and my dad and I both run, so we alternate dogs. The problem is his destructiveness, and refusal to grasp the concept of "NO!"

We have squirt bottles stationed around the house for our dogs and cats, and for the most part, they work as punishment. We rarely have problems with behaviour. My sister's small dog eats out of the litterbox. Whatever. As long as she doesn't make a mess or come lick me afterwards, I don't really care. Oscar, on the other hand, is CONSTANTLY up on the furniture. He gets up on the kitchen counter and chews up whatever he finds up there (phones, plates, forks, you name it.) Today, I came home to find my carnivorous plant seeds, and their pots and soil, ALL over the floor.

My question is this: Does anyone know of any very effective way I can punish this dog? He doesn't care about the squirt bottles, and my dad's method of a rolled up newspaper only sends him hiding for a few seconds, then he's back to seeing if we're dropping any food on the floor. We've tried the smack to the snout, newspaper to the behind, even an open-handed SMACK right on his ribs, even a remote-controlled shock collar. He seriously does not care. Please help me before I make him stay outside all night...and all day.

 

[MicahHall]

Hitting, or any other aggressive behavior towards them is generally useless. I opt for a "time out crate". I have three in my home currently.. two small, one monster sized, and when I get fed up and finally yell crate.. they all turn and run for there crates. A dog that enjoys attention will not be happy and if hes with you long enough will learn to connect the two, no matter how much of a rock you may think he is.

Oh.. and the litter box.. I keep mine in a gated room to keep out my Scottie who thinks its her own personal buffet!!

Im sure lots of others will have some more helpful ideas. You can never have too many suggestions with something like this since what works for some people may not work for others. GOOD LUCK !! Mrs. Hall

 

[becca81]

Try lemon juice in a spray bottle and set the nozzle to straight spray. You can spray directly into their mouth (avoid eye and nose) and this sometimes helps.

 

[Brian F.]

There's also a product on the market called Grannick's Apple Bitter. It's purpose is similar to the water bottles and lemon juice. We've used it pretty successfully with our rottweiler. He's almost two years old and just now learning how to act right, so I know what you're going through. Good luck!

Brian F.

 

[JCola]

coffee can...

I've heard this is a kinda old-school approach.. but my dog Lola is a lab mix, about 75lbs, and gets into just about everything. To keep her off furniture and out of the garbage can, etc. we use an empty coffee can with some pennies in it. If she jumps on the couch, it makes a noise that scares her, or when she tries to get into the garbage, it's on the lid and also scares her. She's learned to avoid the can. The only thing is, my mom had to first scare the crap out of her with it to get her to associate the can with the bad noise as punishment. So far, it's worked pretty well. In your case, I'd say try putting one (or two) on the furniture, and maybe on the counter where he can see it.

 

[darkeye]

a .22 ??

I know, that's mean. But so am I!

I am starting to hate domesticated mammals... and luv my bugs more and more.

 

[thisgal]

a .22 ??

I know, that's mean. But so am I!

I am starting to hate domesticated mammals... and luv my bugs more and more.

Don't tempt me. We have several .22's, among others...

I did some research last night, and apparently this is rather typical Weimaraner behaviour. He's been to obedience school, and finished first in his class. He just needs more exercise. He's the kind of dog, kind of like my Lab, that will go for walk after walk after walk, and never get tired. I'm going to have to start walking/running him DAILY. Also, he's rather obsessed with flashlights and laser pointers... ...he will go so far as to bite cement to try to get to it.

The problem with spraying bitter tasting stuff on things I don't want him to eat is that I'd have to spray EVERYTHING in the house! He's very clever. In the meantime, I found some leftover lemon juice and I'm drinking coffee constantly to empty out the coffee can! Thanx for the advice, guys, I'll keep you posted with the results!

 

[mindlessvw]

We have a schipperke that every time we tried to punish her or say no she would pee right there...be it on the couch or in a bed or wherever. We adopted the pennies in a can routine but found it also scared the hel out of the other dogs. We also tried hitting a pice of newspaper on something like a wall or whatever to startle her and that also scared the other dogs...the best we found was the water bottle and after an extensive period of doing this she is now where you don't have to even spray her. The sight of the bottle is enough. I wouldn't do lemon juice because dogs to lick constantly and i wouldn't want that getting on any sensitive area of the dog but other than that...GOOD LUCK!

 

[WhyTeDraGon]

I suggest you check out "The Dog Whisperer" on the National Geographic Channel. That man knows what he is doing, and he's helped alot with my dogs. Ive only got one dog now though, but he's very obedient, besides chewing while we are gone...but that's our fault because we left him with nothing that was his own to chew on! Now he's got chew toys all over the house, in every room, that he can chew on rather than OUR things, and it's worked very well. If we are going to be gone too long, we lock him in a safe room, like the bathroom, and pick up anything he can chew on, and place down his toys instead. He does very well with this.
Your sister's dog is just curious, and dogs can't feel things with anything other than their mouths, so it's only natural. Put things where he cannot reach them, and when you cannot keep an eye on him, put HIM where he cannot reach them. I know it sounds cruel...but dogs that cannot keep out of things while their owners are gone need to be locked up for their own safety...as long as you give him plenty of play time when you come home. And if he's being locked up for hours and hours on end...well, then...your sister needs to find him a better home where he wont be.

 

[Mina]

We have two pit bulls and oh boy the energy!!!! We have developed two sayings in our house now;
1. Let sleeping bullies lie.
2. A tired bully is a well behaved bully.
My advice is wear him out. If he likes laser pointers, you can wear him out and not you. Walk him, run him, play fetch......he can't chew up the house if he is so tired he sleeps.
The other idea around here that has saved my sanity is a kennel. Kennel training is wonderful!!!!!!!!!

 

[Alissa]

I don't know if I agree with the reference for the Dog Whisperer, a lot of his techniques are outdated and can be harmful. From what I understand, he advocates things like alpha rolls and other pseudo wolf pack dominance behaviors that are based on a faulty understanding of pack life. I think he oversimplifies dog training, and tries to make it seem like every dog that has behavioral problems has dominance problems.

I would do some research on different training methods, including clicker training and positive reinforcement training. Basically, the point is that you can train a dog by reinforcing and encouraging positive behaviors rather than by punishing negative behaviors. If you don't punish a dog while in the middle of doing something wrong, the dog isn't going to understand what you are punishing it for. For example, if you rub your dogs face in it's own <EDIT> when you find that later, the dog isn't going to have any idea of what you're doing. You would be better off really reinforcing and rewarding the dog for going to the bathroom in the right place.

Things like the lemon juice spraying on the other hand, can work because usually you are doing that right at the very time the dog is chewing on something inappropriate, and you are associating chewing with a bad, unpleasant taste rather than associating chewing with an aggressive and frightening owner. I would look into crate training the dog as well, sometimes thats the best thing you can do for a dog that is just too high energy to behave when left alone.

 

[WhyTeDraGon]

I don't know if I agree with the reference for the Dog Whisperer, a lot of his techniques are outdated and can be harmful. From what I understand, he advocates things like alpha rolls and other pseudo wolf pack dominance behaviors that are based on a faulty understanding of pack life. I think he oversimplifies dog training, and tries to make it seem like every dog that has behavioral problems has dominance problems.

I agree with you on most of your points, the Dog Whisperer is a bit set on one type of dog training/psychology. BUT...a dog that gets up on the counter to get food, goes about doing whatever he wants to do, and when HE wants to do it...does have some dominance issues that need to be corrected. He believes HE is in charge, and THAT needs to be assessed first and foremost before beginning other aspects of training.

 

[thisgal]

The dominance thing may work with other dogs...but not this one. Trust me. My sister's boyfriend's dog, the pit bull, is the dominant one of the three of them. She'll stand above him (even though she's shorter than him!) and make it a point to rest her chin on top of his head. The thing is, he doesn't realise this is dominant behaviour. He doesn't acknowledge it at all. He's got no residual wolf-pack tendencies. This is not a dog we're talking about. This is a 90 pound two-year old human.

I agree that my sister should find a new home for him. She was way in over her head back when she had just one dog. Now she's got another, and a newborn to deal with. The thing with Oscar is she got him during a really bad point in her life, so the cute little puppy she would come home to is stuck in her mind. She loves this dog to death. We all do. He had Parvo and nearly died as a puppy, and my dad (the same person who looooves rolled up newspapers) has this connection to him because of all the time he spent at the vet with him. So, she won't get rid of him. There's nothing I can do except volunteer to keep him here as often as possible.

As far as the physical punishment goes, we know it doesn't work. He's been smacked so hard it bruised the palm of the person who did it, and didn't leave a mark on him, nor did he seem to care. It's just that our instinct is to get angry when he...uh...makes us angry.

And I know, as soon as I get on top of his exercise and behaviour, my sister's gonna be ready to take him back, and screw it aaalllll up. :wall:

So anyway, lemon juice, walks, and a laser pointer it is! This is gonna make me tired.

 

[aggie08]

I work at a vet when I'm home from school. Weimaraners are pretty nutty dogs. I don't know what the clients had to go through to get them trained well enough to know to sit, stay, etc. From what I've heard amongst the DVM's kennel training works very well especially for dogs that love attention. Clickers seem to work well but I don't know how well they'd work when trying to get him not to do something. Persistance is your best bet.

 

[MicahHall]

Many good points have been made, but I have some concerns about some of the ideas that people suggested.
1. Lemon juiced water may work, but have you ever gotten that in your eye?? It hurts like hell and can do harm. Is it worth a trip to the vet to repair any damage you may do?

I have an Afghan Hound. He is such a troll. On counters, in the garbage can, and has selective hearing to top that off. Number one, he cant get on the counters if he cant get to them. I keep him secured from the kitchen. Two, he cant get in the garbage can because that is also secure and in the kitchen. Selective hearing.. well hes a sighthound.. most of them suffer from that anyways. When hes got me totally frustrated, I can either put him outside to play and work off some energy or I can crate him. Crates are punishment though. You cant beat a dog and then throw it in its crate and expect it to come to love its "spot". Khefra goes in his crate to nap on his own.. hes safe there, its his haven.

Hunting dogs for the most part are bred to have endless energy. They can go and go and go.. puts the energizer bunny to shame. When you get, or take on the responsibility of a dog like this, you have to get into it with your eyes open.

Give some serious consideration to crating him at certain times of the day. Even when hes getting too wild to deal with. He may hate it at first, but he will learn to deal with it if he has no option. Im sure there is a good dog in there somewhere.. may just take alot of hunting to find it!!

 

[thisgal]

Well, I don't plan on spraying him anywhere except the mouth. If I'm too angry to aim right, I'll put his butt on the screened-in back porch. We usually have a crate folded up somewhere, but we gave our last one to my sister after the pit bull DESTROYED 3 crates in a row. I don't get why/how she is so strong...

Oscar's problem is that he is obsessed with knowing what's going on everywhere around him. The clicker may work if it's followed by a treat, but I'd do it so much, he'd get fat! (We're already trying to slim him down. Not because he's overweight, but because being a few pounds underweight is ideal for large dogs prone to arthritis. This worked for our 11 year old collie.) Even if I were to sprint when I run, he'd still have a pace a little bit faster than mine.

He's always on his toes and ready to go. I'm hoping, with summer on its way, that the heat combined with my running/my sister's goal to lose the pregnancy weight, he'll calm down a ton.

I may talk about killing him pretty frequently, but I know none of this is his fault. I went and got him a long rope toy today, and after about 20 minutes of that, he's passed out on the floor right next to me.

 

[mindlessvw]

I do highly recomend against the lemon juice. You may not be able to predict where all of it goes and like i said earlier dogs have a tendency to lick sensitive areas and i think that would be quite painful...

 

[Ewok]

I agree with you on most of your points, the Dog Whisperer is a bit set on one type of dog training/psychology. BUT...a dog that gets up on the counter to get food, goes about doing whatever he wants to do, and when HE wants to do it...does have some dominance issues that need to be corrected. He believes HE is in charge, and THAT needs to be assessed first and foremost before beginning other aspects of training.

Yeah that is a great show, I've been using it to work with my dog and it has helped too.

@ thisgal according to Ceasar, the three most important steps to having a well traind dog is

1 exercise
2. Discipline
3 and lastly, affection
you have to follow the steps in that order too though, also you have to be tha pack leader in training your dog otherwise you won't be able to train him.

 

[Ewok]

I don't know if I agree with the reference for the Dog Whisperer, a lot of his techniques are outdated and can be harmful. From what I understand, he advocates things like alpha rolls and other pseudo wolf pack dominance behaviors that are based on a faulty understanding of pack life. I think he oversimplifies dog training, and tries to make it seem like every dog that has behavioral problems has dominance problems.

I would do some research on different training methods, including clicker training and positive reinforcement training. Basically, the point is that you can train a dog by reinforcing and encouraging positive behaviors rather than by punishing negative behaviors. If you don't punish a dog while in the middle of doing something wrong, the dog isn't going to understand what you are punishing it for. For example, if you rub your dogs face in it's own <edit> when you find that later, the dog isn't going to have any idea of what you're doing. You would be better off really reinforcing and rewarding the dog for going to the bathroom in the right place.

Things like the lemon juice spraying on the other hand, can work because usually you are doing that right at the very time the dog is chewing on something inappropriate, and you are associating chewing with a bad, unpleasant taste rather than associating chewing with an aggressive and frightening owner. I would look into crate training the dog as well, sometimes thats the best thing you can do for a dog that is just too high energy to behave when left alone.

How are his techniques harmful though? In the dog world you are either the dominante one or the submissive one. If you are not the "packleader" then that dog is not going to obey you at all. Like the dog that pulls a person down the street, thats a dominant dog.

 

[Malkavian]

to keep my family's jack russel terrier (which recieved zippo training whatso ever) off her bed, my mom found a small motion activated speaker originally designed to scare small animals out of flower beds (i think)

Basically it's got a short infrared range sweep and when something breaks it it goes off like a banshee. Might be worth a shot to try to find one of those to train him off the counter. It worked on our JRT in about 3 months.