Help with Amblypigid species ID please?

[RobertJ1]

Hello all,

Picked this little feller up tonight and am curious if someone can help me identify it? I'm leaning towards Phrynus whitei but could use a little better eyes on the subject. Thanks folks.

Robert

 

[Sarkhan42]

You're spot on, a young Phrynus whitei.

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

Yup, P. whitei for sure.

 

[Banshee05]

why so sure?
You do not know where collected. Many phrynids does show white spots around the lateral eyes (even marginemaculatus) in < subadult stages, and with the right flash right, ... all look like that.
Generally, I would agree, but I would only say it is a member of the genus Phrynus. Another ID is far away from a serious justification based on the given details.
Don't get me wrong, nothing against your knowledge or so, I just think that's unserious amd just lead to specimen around with uncertain ID.

 

[DaveM]

why so sure?
You do not know where collected. Many phrynids does show white spots around the lateral eyes (even marginemaculatus) in < subadult stages, and with the right flash right, ... all look like that.
Generally, I would agree, but I would only say it is a member of the genus Phrynus. Another ID is far away from a serious justification based on the given details.
Don't get me wrong, nothing against your knowledge or so, I just think that's unserious amd just lead to specimen around with uncertain ID.

Hi @Banshee05! Nice to see someone with your level of expertise! I've been looking through your publications: very impressive!

Now, on the question posed in this thread: I think you will appreciate my response the most... ...because I don't know anything, so I didn't say anything!

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

why so sure?
You do not know where collected. Many phrynids does show white spots around the lateral eyes (even marginemaculatus) in < subadult stages, and with the right flash right, ... all look like that.
Generally, I would agree, but I would only say it is a member of the genus Phrynus. Another ID is far away from a serious justification based on the given details.
Don't get me wrong, nothing against your knowledge or so, I just think that's unserious amd just lead to specimen around with uncertain ID.

I wasn’t aware other Phrynus have the white eyespots as well, that’s interesting. I’ve only seen it on P. whitei, but my experience is far more limited than yours of course. The pedipalp tibia spines do appear consistent with whitei from what I can tell.

 

[Sarkhan42]

why so sure?
You do not know where collected. Many phrynids does show white spots around the lateral eyes (even marginemaculatus) in < subadult stages, and with the right flash right, ... all look like that.
Generally, I would agree, but I would only say it is a member of the genus Phrynus. Another ID is far away from a serious justification based on the given details.
Don't get me wrong, nothing against your knowledge or so, I just think that's unserious amd just lead to specimen around with uncertain ID.

I know we've touched on this conversation before, but I just have to disagree on the marginimaculatus point. I have never seen one with eyespots, over dozens of specimens I've raised from the mothers back. I can't even find an example online of this. Do you have a source you could share? I still have not been able to find note of ANY phrynid that displays such pronounced eyespots like this outside of whitei.

We also do know country of origin semi-reliably in this case as Nicaragua and Honduras are the only countries exporting Phrynus to the US right now, with Nicaragua being by far the most common. This narrows potential matches considerably. From currently described species, and what we've seen coming out of these countries, it is likely to be either maesi or whitei. Having raised both, they're very distinct from one another and my whiplings and juveniles of maesi have never displayed eyespots at any stage.

 

[RobertJ1]

I will give some clarification here as this little one has a body length of around 1/4".

 

[Banshee05]

I know we've touched on this conversation before, but I just have to disagree on the marginimaculatus point. I have never seen one with eyespots, over dozens of specimens I've raised from the mothers back. I can't even find an example online of this. Do you have a source you could share? I still have not been able to find note of ANY phrynid that displays such pronounced eyespots like this outside of whitei.

Hi

see my page and some pictures...

http://www.amblypygi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Phrynus-parvulus-1.jpg

http://www.amblypygi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Phrynus-marginemaculatus-DomRep-1.jpg

...nearly all of the marginemaculatus populations from USA, Cuba and DomRep should it somehow, but I agree, by far not that well pronounced. However, when u fotograph a fresher molted specimen, more of the area aroudn the lateral eyes are witthish. Also the P. maesi from Nicaragua have this feature.
I just need to point out that eye-spots are not useable for a species identification, it exclude some groups, and focus yourself on the rest, but not more. However, you always meed to keep in mind that for sure more than one species is hidden wihtin the nowadays 'called whitei', their distribution starts in Mexico and ends in Costa Rica.

 

[Banshee05]

We also do know country of origin semi-reliably in this case as Nicaragua and Honduras are the only countries exporting Phrynus to the US right now, with Nicaragua being by far the most common. This narrows potential matches considerably. From currently described species, and what we've seen coming out of these countries, it is likely to be either maesi or whitei. Having raised both, they're very distinct from one another and my whiplings and juveniles of maesi have never displayed eyespots at any stage.

yes, maybe. I can't comment on this, as I have never got real whitei from Nicaragua, all of mine are maesi, and they are distinct. Don't rely on the eye spots, look at the shape of the sclerotized female gonopod part and it easy tells you 'whitei or not'.

 

[Sarkhan42]

yes, maybe. I can't comment on this, as I have never got real whitei from Nicaragua, all of mine are maesi, and they are distinct. Don't rely on the eye spots, look at the shape of the sclerotized female gonopod part and it easy tells you 'whitei or not'.

I have actually done exactly this, and my specimens key out exactly to whitei, as do some friends of mine. I'll actually find my photos I took under a microscope in just a minute.

 

[Sarkhan42]

Hi

see my page and some pictures...

http://www.amblypygi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Phrynus-parvulus-1.jpg

http://www.amblypygi.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Phrynus-marginemaculatus-DomRep-1.jpg

...nearly all of the marginemaculatus populations from USA, Cuba and DomRep should it somehow, but I agree, by far not that well pronounced. However, when u fotograph a fresher molted specimen, more of the area aroudn the lateral eyes are witthish. Also the P. maesi from Nicaragua have this feature.
I just need to point out that eye-spots are not useable for a species identification, it exclude some groups, and focus yourself on the rest, but not more. However, you always meed to keep in mind that for sure more than one species is hidden wihtin the nowadays 'called whitei', their distribution starts in Mexico and ends in Costa Rica.

I think I'm realizing now that you're referring to the extremely small white dots these species have right next to the eyes. The whitei character I'm speaking of is more than 10x the size of this dot, even in very young specimens like the original contained within this post... It's not comparable. In the whitei I've observed, this spot also changes to a red/pink coloration as they mature, giving them almost the appearance of blush.

 

[Sarkhan42]

yes, maybe. I can't comment on this, as I have never got real whitei from Nicaragua, all of mine are maesi, and they are distinct. Don't rely on the eye spots, look at the shape of the sclerotized female gonopod part and it easy tells you 'whitei or not'.

This matches exactly to the reference provided in: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...n-of-whip-spiders-in-Nicaragua_fig3_237313711

 

[Sarkhan42]

Unfortunate all of my specimens are in the red stages now, but you can see by this old photo somewhat what I mean, extremely prominent in both exuviae and post molt. This is also the exact same specimen in both photos, the photo with red I took just now. You’ll also notice the absence of the strong pedipalp granulation that maesi from Nicaragua display, which I find interesting as well.

 

[Banshee05]

Here I absolutely agree, looks like whitei, or let's, not like maesi
The exuviae with the withish area is also a good indicator, as it is not that much affected by flashlight or live-stages. Good!