HELP! Any hope? (roaches)

[LindsayMarie]

Ok I received a roach shipment today. Unfortunately 95% or so of the discoids are dead, the other 6-8 are twitching and unable to control movement. Its weird. I think they may have been to cold during shipping. I have been warming them up for hours and it did start those 6-8 twitching, but thats it the rest are dead. The "survivors" are not livening up and acting normal. More like they are in a permanent seizure!? Has anyone seen anything like this? Is it because of the cold? Should I feed them off to my dragons before they die (is death inevitable I guess is the ?)

Whats interesting is in the same shipment were dubias and hissers. About 30% of the dubias have died, a couple more are looking like they are going to die soon. Only 1 hisser died.

I am a little bummed out as I was looking forward to the discoids for feeders for my dragons for the next month so I could leave my dubia colony alone after stressing them out recently. Good thing I ordered through a great person and there will be replacements, but it will just be another week or so.

So is there any hope for those 6-8 that are twitching? Probably not. Anyone have a similiar experience with a roach shipment. Did any of the "twitchers" survive?

Thanks for any help, Lindsay

 

[Cirith Ungol]

If they havn't been in room temperature too long by now you can always freeze the dead or near dead roaches and then just defrost them before you feed them off. You might have to play with the roaches then in order get a feeding response from your dragons but they should eat them nontheless. So no need to throw them away.

 

[Nikos]

DOn't throw them away or freeze them!
give them sometime to recover
you'll be amazed with how many of the dead ones will be walking after a while

 

[LindsayMarie]

They are all dead except for 3 Those 3 remaining dont look to well. They definitely have some neurological impairment! I am just hoping no more dubias or hissers die. I will check on them in the afternoon when I get up. I am keeping my fingers crossed that no more die!

 

[John J Starr Jr]

Drag

What a Drag.

I (((allways))) have insects shipped OVERNIGHT whether it is summer or winter and if it is winter I will order them with heat packs no matter what. One time it was very cold and the heat pack did not work very well because of the very cold tempuratures but they did finally come out of it. I recieved 150 very young Blaberus fusca nymphs and 25 Eublaberus distanti nymphs. The fusca came out of it quickly within a couple of hours but the distanti took 4 or 5 hours. They looked dead as a door nail but they did come out of it very very slowly. I thought they were gone for sure.

I gave the distanti to a friend who has a scorpion and needed to produce some feeders for it. They are a little bit to crunchy for Dragons especially since I have 5 other species with much softer exoskeletons to work with. Two of all 25 of those distanti nymphs that I gave him just shedded into winged adults and the others will very soon.

John J Starr Jr

 

[LindsayMarie]

I tried for many hours. Majority were already dead and those that were twitching just werent pulling out of it. Looked like they were definitely suffering. Now I only have 3 and they seem to have some lasting impairments. Not even sure they are going to be able to find the food/water? Probably just end up feeding them off and hopefully everything is fine with the replacements. I think we are going to have to do something a little different with the replacement shipment. Insulation, heat pack and possibly overnight. Just stinks cause I already paid shipping and really I didnt have the money for all this, but needed it for the dragons as my dubia colony got real stressed when I cut it in half and changed its environment completely. Ahhhh, life....lol At any rate, all but 3 of the discoids died. It does stink!

 

[cacoseraph]

I tried for many hours. Majority were already dead and those that were twitching just werent pulling out of it. Looked like they were definitely suffering. Now I only have 3 and they seem to have some lasting impairments. Not even sure they are going to be able to find the food/water? Probably just end up feeding them off and hopefully everything is fine with the replacements. I think we are going to have to do something a little different with the replacement shipment. Insulation, heat pack and possibly overnight. Just stinks cause I already paid shipping and really I didnt have the money for all this, but needed it for the dragons as my dubia colony got real stressed when I cut it in half and changed its environment completely. Ahhhh, life....lol At any rate, all but 3 of the discoids died. It does stink!

the fact you keep saying twitching and neuro impairment would make me throw them all away
far away

sounds like bug spray

 

[Ecilious]

I concur, definately doesn't sound like cold to me. I've been ordering live foods through the post for years and when it's cold they simply don't move until they have been [gradually] heated up with no ill after effects, that or they're just dead which has the associated after effect of still being dead.

 

[LindsayMarie]

If it were bug spray how would it have got into the box and why would 70% of the dubias be alive and almost all hissers? I havent checked on them today yet, but as of last night no more of them had died. I have to be honest it is weird! Are you sure severe cold cant do this to them?

 

[padkison]

I got a shipment of hissers and discoids once. All the discoids were stone dead, all the hissers alive with no apparent problems I left the discoid out overnight, but none revived. I assumed it was the cold as it was a winter shipment.

I've been told hissers are fairly tough.

 

[LindsayMarie]

replacements

I received my replacement shipment today. The new discoids are doing great! They are pretty neurotic compared to dubias huh? (more active, faster moving, run and/or "jump" off your hand, they ran in circles for while in their bin when I first unpacked them..lol) They are pretty neat looking. I only have nymphs so I am interested to see what the adults turn into. In the replacement shipment was more dubias, since I lost quite a bit of the last batch. I am thrilled this shipment went so well, looks like there were no deaths this time.

 

[John J Starr Jr]

Congradulations

I received my replacement shipment today. The new discoids are doing great! They are pretty neurotic compared to dubias huh? (more active, faster moving, run and/or "jump" off your hand, they ran in circles for while in their bin when I first unpacked them..lol) They are pretty neat looking. I only have nymphs so I am interested to see what the adults turn into. In the replacement shipment was more dubias, since I lost quite a bit of the last batch. I am thrilled this shipment went so well, looks like there were no deaths this time.

Congradulations on your discoids. Mine are just starting to breed a lot. I started with 150 last August and now I have well over 200 new baby nymphs running around. I think that they will do ok for me. I also started with 150 dubia last July and now I have way over 2000 newborn nymphs with about another 1000 from 1/4 of inch up to 3/4 of an inch.

While a picture is not the greatest thing and a live animal is much better I do have a few in my discoid and comparison area at the links at the bottom of this page.

John J Starr Jr

 

[LindsayMarie]

So you started with 150 of both dubias and discoids a month apart and you have a couple thousand dubias and only a couple hundred discoid nymphs? Do discoids breed slower? If thats the case I may keep a small colony of them. The dubias are a great feeder and will remain my main feeder, but it couldnt hurt to have a couple variety species. I already have hissers and now around 40 discoid nymphs maybe. I just dont want any other large colonies. I want to be able to keep the numbers under control. At one time I had lobsters, hissers, distantis, and dubias and I was overwhelmed with the number of bins and number of roaches. Had way more then I needed and my allergies were out of control. I ended up giving away 3/4 of the collection just to get rid of them...lol Dont need a situation like that again! If the discoids breed slower, it may sway my decision towards starting a small colony of them. I havent decided yet.

 

[John J Starr Jr]

So you started with 150 of both dubias and discoids a month apart and you have a couple thousand dubias and only a couple hundred discoid nymphs? Do discoids breed slower? If thats the case I may keep a small colony of them. The dubias are a great feeder and will remain my main feeder, but it couldnt hurt to have a couple variety species. I already have hissers and now around 40 discoid nymphs maybe. I just dont want any other large colonies. I want to be able to keep the numbers under control. At one time I had lobsters, hissers, distantis, and dubias and I was overwhelmed with the number of bins and number of roaches. Had way more then I needed and my allergies were out of control. I ended up giving away 3/4 of the collection just to get rid of them...lol Dont need a situation like that again! If the discoids breed slower, it may sway my decision towards starting a small colony of them. I havent decided yet.

It actually may have been more than a month because the time could have been early in July and late in August plus keep in mind that the Blaptica_dubia nymphs were larger meaning older animals where the Blaberus_discoidalis nymphs were smaller meaning younger.

I got 150 nymphs each of Blaberus craniifer, parabolicus, and fusca throughout November_2005. The parabolicus nymphs are at least 1/4 adults now and probably 1/3 now. The craniifer nymphs are probably at least adult 1/6 adults and the fusca nymphs so far have 4 adults.

Each one of those were different sizes and ages when I recieved them. I specifically asked James for the fusca to be very young which is exactly what he sent me because I wanted some time between designing my new cages and setting up my cages.

Most of these species take about 5 months to become adults from birth so if you get small ones they may be very young and large ones may be very old close to adult. Then there is the the (((whenever))) your colony decides to explode in population. Anything such as cage enviroment conditions and ESPECIALLY LEAVING THEM ALONE, DO NOT DISTURB!!! Little things can make a huge a difference in how fast they expand.

John J Starr Jr

 

[billopelma]

If you want any of them to breed slower just lower the temps. Can't remember which species are the most temp dependent but some will barely breed at room temperature.

Bill

 

[LindsayMarie]

How do you leave them alone? I "bother" them once a day, for about 2 minutes to feed them. In order to this though it causes kind of a ruckus as the food "troth" (long strip of egg crate), is ALWAYS full of dubias. I have to shew them out of the 6 or so holes so I can dump the dry food in and lay apples about the crates. What is the best way to put larger amount of food in the bin, so I can disturb them less? I dont want to put it on the frass. What do all of you do? Thanks, Lindsay

I know alot of people use extra heat on their colonies, but I just keep them at the room temp, in the reptile room. Mostly it runs at the same temps as the rest of the house. When the dragons lights are on, it is a little warmer, obviously. So far I havent had much issues with the dubia reproducing with these temps. The hissers are a little slower (I think they would like more heat), but I dont want them to reproduce too much, so it works fine! Whether the discoids will flourish on just slightly elevated room temps, I dont know? Never had them before! Any input?

 

[John J Starr Jr]

Cage And Care

How do you leave them alone? I "bother" them once a day, for about 2 minutes to feed them. In order to this though it causes kind of a ruckus as the food "troth" (long strip of egg crate), is ALWAYS full of dubias. I have to shew them out of the 6 or so holes so I can dump the dry food in and lay apples about the crates. What is the best way to put larger amount of food in the bin, so I can disturb them less? I dont want to put it on the frass. What do all of you do? Thanks, Lindsay

I know alot of people use extra heat on their colonies, but I just keep them at the room temp, in the reptile room. Mostly it runs at the same temps as the rest of the house. When the dragons lights are on, it is a little warmer, obviously. So far I havent had much issues with the dubia reproducing with these temps. The hissers are a little slower (I think they would like more heat), but I dont want them to reproduce too much, so it works fine! Whether the discoids will flourish on just slightly elevated room temps, I dont know? Never had them before! Any input?

If you click on either of the links below I explain everything that I did in great detail in the Cage_And_Care area of the web site.

In my Top Down Design cage which is in the Cage_And_Care area, a small room of the basement has a tempurature of 70F. With the Top_Down_Design I get a hotspot of 100F and a cool spot of 75F. Actually if you look at my design it is obvious that I actually have 2 coolspots of 75F. If I raise the room tempurature to 80F then I would have a hot spot of 110F and 2 cool spots of 85F. The room tempurature does go from 70F up to 75F so my cage tempuratures are from 75F,100F to 80F,105F. I have a 25F gradient in the cage.

As for leaving them alone I use Slopping Wet insect crystals, ground up dried dogfood, carrots, romaine leaf lettuce, and sometimes I toss in an orange for them. I usually only disturb them long enough to feed them, refill and sloppy wet down the water crystals, and to spray down the inside of the aquarium glass twice a week. This is allways done on the weekend and on Wednesday and they only get disturbed for about 5 minutes at a time for each cage. I have noticed that my dubia are eating a lot of the ground up dried dog food and I think that I need a larger feeder for them because I have been refilling it every other day. They eat a lot of the ground up dried dogfood, more so than the Blaberus species do.

I have thousands of dubia and each day I see many more new discoids. The discoids are about to explode in population any time. My parabolicus are just now beginning to reproduce. I catch the parabolicus breeding all of the time and I have seen many of them rotating their eggsacks. The parabolicus will probably be my main protein food source simply because they are so extremely meaty in comparison to any of my other Blaberus species and they breed just as frequently as the discoids breed plus the parabolicus also live for a couple of years or so. I also expect my craniifer to start reproducing this month or April sometime. My fusca should start reproducing in April, May, or possibly June of this year. By sometime this summer I honestly believe that I will be producing 5 figures in nymphs production each and every month so I will have enough to feed 3 adult Dragons and hundreds of baby dragons that will be born throughout the summer with some excess roaches of each of my current species leftover from time to time.

!!! ((( GOOD BY TO THE SMELLY CRICKETS ))) !!!

BTW, your idea about having more than one variety of roach for your animals is a very goog idea.

I hope this explains it enough but pictures and great details are at the below links.

Great Luck!

John J Starr Jr
.

 

[LindsayMarie]

Thanks for sharing and I am checking out your site now So you keep bearded dragons? I have 9. I bred them at one time, but havent so in a couple years and no plans to in the future. I am just too sensitive for it. I was picky to where they went and I didnt want to sell them till they were older and they can eat you out of a home them little ones! I always kept some out of the clutches and now I have 9. So although it was a wonderful experience (100% hatch rate on every clutch!!), I was like no more. But I do miss the little ones, they are too cute.

Variety in protein is just as important as variety in their green/veg/fruit diet. Like I said at one time I had lobsters, hissers, distantis and dubias. It was too much! I think the lobsters made it too much. They were just out of control. They bred and bred and nothing stopped them...lol So I was overwhelmed and gave away 3/4 of my roach collection. Keeping only 6 adult hissers and all the dubias. Since then the dubia colony turned into thousands and thousands. I just sold half. Acquired some unrelated hissers so I have about dozen adults now. Plus the new discoids. As long as I keep the secondary feeder sources in smaller colonies I think things should be fine. Especially if I can keep them with no substrate (allergies). With all those species, which do you find your dragons prefer? I know mine really like the dubias. They are ok with the smaller hissers or recently shedded ones. They didnt care for the distantis too much when I had those. As for the lobsters I had a few that refused to eat them? I am not sure about the discoids as I dont really have enough to feed to them yet. Which ones do your dragons go nuts over? Thanks for all the help. Lindsay

 

[John J Starr Jr]

Dragon Food

So far I have only fed them a few new dubia nymphs and a very few new discoid nymphs. They liked them both. I am currently working towards building super colonies so the newborns will stay until each of my colonies get huge in size.

I only have 3 Dragons and if breed this year the babies from only 2 Dragons will eat thousands of roaches each and every day. Dragons are expensive to raise but then any small/medium sized or larger reptile seems very expensive to raise in captivity.

John J Starr Jr

 

[LindsayMarie]

I only have 3 Dragons and if breed this year the babies from only 2 Dragons will eat thousands of roaches each and every day. Dragons are expensive to raise but then any small/medium sized or larger reptile seems very expensive to raise in captivity.
John J Starr Jr

Don't I know it! I hatched a handful of clutches in 2 seasons, by 2 females. Them babies eat ALOT! Since I was so picky where they went and to whom, I ended up wholesaling (practically giving them away) to a very well known and trusted Bearded Dragon breeder a couple states away. I even drove a couple of the clutches 6 1/2 hours one way, so 13 hours in one day, twice I think!!! Yeah I am a sucker! I ended up putting way more money into it. But they were so darn cute and it was a rewarding experience, regardless. Out of my 9, 5 I hatched and raised, so its neat. I always had a soft spot for the smallest (runt), or the one who got bit 4 times in the tail (and with all my care didnt lose any of it). Then there is the one that reminds you of its mom or dad and you dont want to part....blah blah.... LOL

Goodluck on your clutches when you start breeding them. Hope you post pics!