Halloween hisser: Male or Female?

[goonius]

My daughter recently ordered a pair of Elliptorhina javanica, requesting two males because she didn't want to breed them. One died in transit (that one, she felt sure was a male). The other survived, but after looking at it more closely, my daughter began to believe it might be female. We are new to keeping hissers, these are our first, so I'm seeking second opinions from those more experienced with this species.

 

[Matts inverts]

You can’t tell if it’s a male from its belly. You have to look on the head. If it has to bumps above it’s head, it’s a male. Females will have a more smooth head and will have little to no bumps.

 

[Matts inverts]

I recommend multiple females because males fight and hurt each other. You have to get them young though because they might have bred already and have nymphs.

 

[MrGhostMantis]

You can’t tell if it’s a male from its belly. You have to look on the head. If it has to bumps above it’s head, it’s a male. Females will have a more smooth head and will have little to no bumps.

Yes you can. You can sex from segments.

My daughter recently ordered a pair of Elliptorhina javanica, requesting two males because she didn't want to breed them. One died in transit (that one, she felt sure was a male). The other survived, but after looking at it more closely, my daughter began to believe it might be female. We are new to keeping hissers, these are our first, so I'm seeking second opinions from those more experienced with this species.

View attachment 380562

That’s a beautiful female E. javanica.

 

[goonius]

You can’t tell if it’s a male from its belly. You have to look on the head. If it has to bumps above it’s head, it’s a male. Females will have a more smooth head and will have little to no bumps.

Thanks Matt. She does not have those bumps. The deceased one did. I felt the seller did a horrific job packing them -- they clearly took a beating in transit -- and since we requested two males, I have to wonder if he even knew how to sex them.

I recommend multiple females because males fight and hurt each other. You have to get them young though because they might have bred already and have nymphs.

My daughter was aware they can fight but had read something about females arriving gravid and dying shortly after giving birth and that scared her off of getting females, I guess. Seeing as she now has a female, I imagine she will stick to those from here on out.

Yes you can. You can sex from segments.

Thanks, this is what my daughter believed also -- I'll have to tell her she was right!

That’s a beautiful female E. javanica.

Thank you so much for the confirmation!


Also, do either of you have recommendations for reputable breeders/sellers for inverts like the hissers? We didn't see anyone in classifieds here and took a chance on someone we found through a google search. (Are people allowed to give recommendations on here or does that fall under the 'no soliciting' rule?) After our experience with this guy, I'd like to be sure we buy from someone who has a greater regard for these creatures next time.

 

[goliathusdavid]

Also, do either of you have recommendations for reputable breeders/sellers for inverts like the hissers? We didn't see anyone in classifieds here and took a chance on someone we found through a google search. (Are people allowed to give recommendations on here or does that fall under the 'no soliciting' rule?) After our experience with this guy, I'd like to be sure we buy from someone who has a greater regard for these creatures next time.

We are not supposed to give recommendations in the main forum, but if you PM me, I'd be happy to recommend some great people

 

[Polenth]

My daughter was aware they can fight but had read something about females arriving gravid and dying shortly after giving birth and that scared her off of getting females, I guess. Seeing as she now has a female, I imagine she will stick to those from here on out.

Adult females kept in mixed enclosures will almost certainly have mated, so this isn't a good option unless you want a colony. Adult males do fight, but it's trivial. At most, they might lose pieces of their antennae. It's perfectly fine to have a tank full of males. Just make sure they have space and enough hides (like egg boxes and such).

You now have a potential problem if you didn't want to breed, as you'll most likely see nymphs at some point and need to plan for that.

 

[goonius]

Adult females kept in mixed enclosures will almost certainly have mated, so this isn't a good option unless you want a colony. Adult males do fight, but it's trivial. At most, they might lose pieces of their antennae. It's perfectly fine to have a tank full of males. Just make sure they have space and enough hides (like egg boxes and such).

You now have a potential problem if you didn't want to breed, as you'll most likely see nymphs at some point and need to plan for that.

Interesting, your take on males. This is what my daughter had read, and why she had chosen (or at least tried to choose) a male pair.

I agree, it's a little bit of a quandary that he sent us a female who was likely kept in a mixed enclosure. I suppose we will have to set up another enclosure to prevent nymphs escaping (we aren't actually set up for this currently, because females weren't part of the plan) in case she is gravid. We are keeping her in the enclosure we had set up for a male pair: a Zilla micro terrestrial (14'x8'); I know hissers can climb, and I imagine nymphs can squeeze out of small spaces. What do people typically breed these guys in?

I wonder, since we keep her in our tarantula room (approx 72-76 degrees year round), if this would even be optimal to carrying a brood to term. What are your thoughts?

Is there any way to tell if the female we currently have is gravid other than just wait and see?

 

[Matts inverts]

I just remembered, you can buy nymphs and keep them, I think it applies to this species where if you keep them at room temp assuming your house is high 60s to low 70s, they will not breed or it is not likely to happen.

 

[goliathusdavid]

I agree, it's a little bit of a quandary that he sent us a female who was likely kept in a mixed enclosure. I suppose we will have to set up another enclosure to prevent nymphs escaping (we aren't actually set up for this currently, because females weren't part of the plan) in case she is gravid. We are keeping her in the enclosure we had set up for a male pair: a Zilla micro terrestrial (14'x8'); I know hissers can climb, and I imagine nymphs can squeeze out of small spaces. What do people typically breed these guys in?

I wonder, since we keep her in our tarantula room (approx 72-76 degrees year round), if this would even be optimal to carrying a brood to term. What are your thoughts?

Is there any way to tell if the female we currently have is gravid other than just wait and see?

Regarding an escape proof enclosure, I would recommend two options:
1. a glass terrarium (size up to you, I would recommend at least a 10 gallon) with a sheet of the thinnest mesh you can find under the lid. This means you would have to select the terrarium carefully based on the lid. You want something non-sliding like this, for which you can buy an air screen cover under which a mesh sheet can be placed.
2. plastic breeder bin (size again dependent on how many you want to keep). I use these, which can house a few hundred hissers, and far fewer numbers of other species. You can opt to either drill airholes and then cover with mesh or cut out the whole top and hot glue one to two (I recommend two) sheets of thin mesh across the whole enclosure. The latter approach is the one I take, increasing ventilation. Hissers are easy to house and can be kept either with or without a substrate, as long as they have A LOT of places to hide.
I've used both these approaches and as long as you careful about opening the enclosure and routinely check security, you shouldn't get any escapes. It gets a lot more complicated when you get up into the hundreds though...
Regarding temperature, that should be fine. Ideal is 75F and above, though contrary to @Matts inverts experience, I have seen breeding at some temperatures lower than this. Not usual though. As for telling if the female is pregnant there really is no way to do this without potentially harming the ootheca or female. In the later stages of gestation the trained eye can see swelling in the abdomen, and at high temperatures females will occasionally allow the ootheca to protrude in order to cool it. Not really any way to tell until then, and the second one doesn't always happen.
Also I need a dedicated T room . What I really need is a containment facility but thats a long term long term dream.

 

[goonius]

Regarding an escape proof enclosure, I would recommend two options:
1. a glass terrarium (size up to you, I would recommend at least a 10 gallon) with a sheet of the thinnest mesh you can find under the lid. This means you would have to select the terrarium carefully based on the lid. You want something non-sliding like this, for which you can buy an air screen cover under which a mesh sheet can be placed.
2. plastic breeder bin (size again dependent on how many you want to keep). I use these, which can house a few hundred hissers, and far fewer numbers of other species. You can opt to either drill airholes and then cover with mesh or cut out the whole top and hot glue one to two (I recommend two) sheets of thin mesh across the whole enclosure. The latter approach is the one I take, increasing ventilation. Hissers are easy to house and can be kept either with or without a substrate, as long as they have A LOT of places to hide.
I've used both these approaches and as long as you careful about opening the enclosure and routinely check security, you shouldn't get any escapes. It gets a lot more complicated when you get up into the hundreds though...
Regarding temperature, that should be fine. Ideal is 75F and above, though contrary to @Matts inverts experience, I have seen breeding at some temperatures lower than this. Not usual though. As for telling if the female is pregnant there really is no way to do this without potentially harming the ootheca or female. In the later stages of gestation the trained eye can see swelling in the abdomen, and at high temperatures females will occasionally allow the ootheca to protrude in order to cool it. Not really any way to tell until then, and the second one doesn't always happen.
Also I need a dedicated T room . What I really need is a containment facility but thats a long term long term dream.

I appreciate all the info. This sounds similar to the way we keep our dubias. We will probably go the plastic bin route since the hisser seems to hide most of the time, so it's not like she's game for being a big display pet. We already have a 10 gallon dirt 'display' aquarium that, at least theoretically, contains a giant vinegaroon. Not the best decision in hindsight.

Our dedicated tarantula room is also my daughter's bedroom, so it's somewhat less dedicated than it sounds. That's because we have other creatures occupying our other rooms: red runners and dubias in the sunroom, ant colonies and mealworm breeders in the living room. My daughter is the only one of us who can stand the warmer temps and was willing to sacrifice all her available shelf space for the cause. Then, she is the one who got us into the hobby, not the other way around. The containment facility may factor into our long-term dreams at the rate we are going also!