H. silenus Dying/Molting?

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
Hello everyone,

I purchased a subadult male H. silenus (labeled as "Asian Forest Scorpion") from Petsmart in January 2024. I normally don't buy animals from chain stores, but I had known this particular individual since fall of 2023.
Before I completed my purchase, I made sure to do proper research for the genus. I had also kept U. mordax with success before, so I did have some kind of previous scorpion experience.

My H. silenus settled in quite well and was completely healthy until now. This morning, I found him laying next to his water dish in a semi-curled posture. He was moving slightly, but in a strange manner that concerned me. His shell was displaying slight brown coloration, which was unusual compared to his normal jet black look. I am unsure if he is dying or molting.

In addition, about two weeks ago, he started wandering around his enclosure very often instead of sitting in his hide. He would lay in the open during the day, and wander restlessly almost every night. Before that, he was quite sedentary.
I wasn't too concerned about this, since I thought that it might be seasonal behavior. However, I am now wondering if this has anything to do with what is happening right now.

His enclosure is a 5 gallon storage bin with 80% ventilation restriction. A heat mat on the side of the tank keeps temperatures a consistent 75F to 76F, and the enclosure is always humid due to 2.5" of moist substrate. I would have added more, but he never showed any interest in burrowing.
I feed him half of a large dubia roach every two weeks, and he has been eating fine. There is a large and shallow water dish that is always full. He has no external parasites or injuries that I can see and has never had a fall in my care.

I have included a picture of my scorpion below. Is he molting, or is he dying? And if the latter is the case, what could the reason be?

There's one thing I am sure about, though-- I am never buying live animals from Petsmart again.

IMG_4451.jpg
 

fcat

Arachnodemon
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2023
Messages
707
Someone with experience will chime in, the wandering is reminiscent of mature male tarantulas I suppose. Can you rule that out?

The dull color, sluggishness, sounds like premolt.

Your environment is different than mine, but 2.5" of sub wouldn't hold much moisture for long around these parts.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
Someone with experience will chime in, the wandering is reminiscent of mature male tarantulas I suppose. Can you rule that out?
He was sexed as a subadult, but he could very well be an adult. I'm not sure.
Your environment is different than mine, but 2.5" of sub wouldn't hold much moisture for long around these parts.
Interesting, I've actually never had any issues with it holding moisture. It's always wet, but not soaking wet. Perhaps it's the restricted ventilation that keeps it like that?
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
1,633
Hello everyone,

I purchased a subadult male H. silenus (labeled as "Asian Forest Scorpion") from Petsmart in January 2024. I normally don't buy animals from chain stores, but I had known this particular individual since fall of 2023.
Before I completed my purchase, I made sure to do proper research for the genus. I had also kept U. mordax with success before, so I did have some kind of previous scorpion experience.

My H. silenus settled in quite well and was completely healthy until now. This morning, I found him laying next to his water dish in a semi-curled posture. He was moving slightly, but in a strange manner that concerned me. His shell was displaying slight brown coloration, which was unusual compared to his normal jet black look. I am unsure if he is dying or molting.

In addition, about two weeks ago, he started wandering around his enclosure very often instead of sitting in his hide. He would lay in the open during the day, and wander restlessly almost every night. Before that, he was quite sedentary.
I wasn't too concerned about this, since I thought that it might be seasonal behavior. However, I am now wondering if this has anything to do with what is happening right now.

His enclosure is a 5 gallon storage bin with 80% ventilation restriction. A heat mat on the side of the tank keeps temperatures a consistent 75F to 76F, and the enclosure is always humid due to 2.5" of moist substrate. I would have added more, but he never showed any interest in burrowing.
I feed him half of a large dubia roach every two weeks, and he has been eating fine. There is a large and shallow water dish that is always full. He has no external parasites or injuries that I can see and has never had a fall in my care.

I have included a picture of my scorpion below. Is he molting, or is he dying? And if the latter is the case, what could the reason be?

There's one thing I am sure about, though-- I am never buying live animals from Petsmart again.

View attachment 469484

I would increase the substrate depth to 4"-6" how can it construct a burrow in 2.5"? What type of substrate do you use? What sort of climate are you having and what is the temperature in the whole room? Also, adult males will wander alot seeking mates. Post a picture of the whole enclosure. And you use a thermogun in order take more accurate temps which should be 75F-85F. Be sure the terrarium can breathe and circulate fresh air otherwise you will get mold.

Heat pads are basically garbage compared to lamps and CHE with a thermostat. Lamps provide better ambient heat, heat pads provide basking heat with very little to no ambient heat.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
I would increase the substrate depth to 4"-6" how can it construct a burrow in 2.5"? What type of substrate do you use? What sort of climate are you having and what is the temperature in the whole room? Also, adult males will wander alot seeking mates. Post a picture of the whole enclosure. And you use a thermogun in order take more accurate temps which should be 75F-85F. Be sure the terrarium can breathe and circulate fresh air otherwise you will get mold.
That makes sense; I will definitely add more substrate. I am currently using coconut fiber (70%) with sand (30%) mixed in it. My climate is generally very temperate and dry; room temperature is about 70F to 73F and the indoor humidity is approximately 40%.
I have included a picture below. We have a thermogun downstairs; I'll try and get it up and running this weekend. As for mold, I don't think I've ever had it in this enclosure before.
IMG_4456.jpg
Heat pads are basically garbage compared to lamps and CHE with a thermostat. Lamps provide better ambient heat, heat pads provide basking heat with very little to no ambient heat.
I've heard that heat pads were bad, but I didn't know they were that terrible. I have an old heat lamp for katydids downstairs; I will try to find it this weekend with the thermogun.
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
1,633
That makes sense; I will definitely add more substrate. I am currently using coconut fiber (70%) with sand (30%) mixed in it. My climate is generally very temperate and dry; room temperature is about 70F to 73F and the indoor humidity is approximately 40%.
I have included a picture below. We have a thermogun downstairs; I'll try and get it up and running this weekend. As for mold, I don't think I've ever had it in this enclosure before.
View attachment 469493

I've heard that heat pads were bad, but I didn't know they were that terrible. I have an old heat lamp for katydids downstairs; I will try to find it this weekend with the thermogun.
No cross ventilation? Post a pic of the lid. Also, take temps of every area of the substrate make sure the heat pad is not overheating the substrate and slowly baking it alive due to the shallow depth of the substrate. And does the heat pad have a thermostat? I would invest in a proper 5 gallon terrarium with deeper substrate.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
No cross ventilation? Post a pic of the lid. Also, take temps of every area of the substrate make sure the heat pad is not baking it alive due to the shallow depth of the substrate. And does the heat pad have a thermostat? I would invest in a proper 5 gallon terrarium with deeper substrate.
No, there is no cross ventilation. And yes, the heat pad has a thermostat. I'm not sure if I should bother my scorpion at the moment, but I'll definitely get a better enclosure as you suggested.
I'll go and snap a photo of the lid, but I do have a question: for a thermogun, can I use a thermometer for measuring body temperature? I know that they are not the same thing, but the one downstairs might take a while to find and I'm not sure if it's still there. I was wondering if I could use the fever thermometer in the meantime.
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
1,633
No, there is no cross ventilation. And yes, the heat pad has a thermostat. I'm not sure if I should bother my scorpion at the moment, but I'll definitely get a better enclosure as you suggested.
I'll go and snap a photo of the lid, but I do have a question: for a thermogun, can I use a thermometer for measuring body temperature? I know that they are not the same thing, but the one downstairs might take a while to find and I'm not sure if it's still there. I was wondering if I could use the fever thermometer in the meantime.
You can try it but a electronic substrate thermometer is much preferable. Test the substrate with your fingers (yes not very accurate) but just to temporarily assess. The substrate at this depth should not be too warm but especially not hot. Scorpions not only construct burrows for protection but to also thermoregulate and escape day time heat.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
You can try it but a electronic substrate thermometer is much preferable. Test the substrate with your fingers (yes not very accurate) but just to temporarily assess. The substrate at this depth should not be too warm but especially not hot. Scorpions not only construct burrows for protection but to also thermoregulate and escape day time heat.
Just my luck; our fever thermometer is broken too. However, I did do the finger test, and the substrate is cool all over-- no warmth or heat anywhere. There is a notable increase in air warmth and humidity when I put my finger in the tank, but not for the substrate. I actually have an electronic substrate thermometer from when my family used to garden (again, downstairs). I will try and pull it up on Sunday.

Unfortunately, I won't have access to my invertebrates for the next few days (out of town), so I'll just have to cross my fingers and make sure to not make mistakes like these in the future.
Thank you both for your help and advice; I'll update this thread when I get home on Sunday.

A picture of the lid is below:
IMG_4457.jpg
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
Update: I just got back home, and unfortunately, my scorpion has passed away.
Apparently, he moved about six inches to the right, turned 180 degrees, stretched out, and died while we were gone.

I don't plan to keep this genus again in the near future, mainly because I don't feel that this species is right for me.
However, if I do keep Heterotremus sp. again, I will make sure to do the following:
  • Purchase a proper 5 to 10 gallon terrarium
  • Use more reliable heating methods
  • Find a better way to measure enclosure temperature
  • Ensure that there is a proper amount of substrate depth
  • Keep better ventilation and airflow
Again, thanks so much for the help.
 

fcat

Arachnodemon
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2023
Messages
707
I give everyone until I see/smell obvious signs of decomposition...crazier things have happened, and simpler of course, they look dead when molting.

Update: I just got back home, and unfortunately, my scorpion has passed away.
Apparently, he moved about six inches to the right, turned 180 degrees, stretched out, and died while we were gone.

I don't plan to keep this genus again in the near future, mainly because I don't feel that this species is right for me.
However, if I do keep Heterotremus sp. again, I will make sure to do the following:
  • Purchase a proper 5 to 10 gallon terrarium
  • Use more reliable heating methods
  • Find a better way to measure enclosure temperature
  • Ensure that there is a proper amount of substrate depth
  • Keep better ventilation and airflow
Again, thanks so much for the help.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
I give everyone until I see/smell obvious signs of decomposition...crazier things have happened, and simpler of course, they look dead when molting.
Oh, okay! I haven't done anything yet, so I'll definitely keep track of my scorpion until I sense decomposition. Thanks for the tip!
Once again, I'll update the post depending on what happens.
 

gzophia

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 15, 2024
Messages
180
Update: Came back from school and noticed some signs of decomposition. I am certain he has passed on.

Farewell, my friend. 😔
 
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